Tyrannus
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Knowledge is Night
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Post by Tyrannus on Feb 17, 2017 11:03:52 GMT -5
So to preface this thread, I was perusing the internet looking for information on the DS project Onoskelis and came across this image of the artist: Now this startled me because, unless I'm mistaken, Onoskelis appears to be masterminded by a woman! This is pretty unheard of in DS as far as I know and I was curious as to what other female-led DS projects there might be. I also thought this thread might be an interesting place to discuss the implications of being so male-dominated and what that says about the genre and its surrounding culture. I feel like this exists in similar styles to some extent, although even black metal and noise and other fringe genres appear to have at least a handful of female artists. Anyway, I just wondered what you all thought about this! Edit: I believe Kosemet is also female and has a tape on hollow myths
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Post by thekeeper on Feb 17, 2017 11:48:06 GMT -5
Ice Thunder is really good. Primeval Spell, of course. There are others I can't think of at the moment. Anonymity is pretty common in DS (and BM) so I'm sure there are more than we realize. It's not like we can tell anyway unless there's vocals. There are definitely more female fans than there are female artists in DS and BM. A lot of metal and metal off-shoots in general are pretty male-dominated artist-wise, but from what I've observed over time, it's a bit less "ooh there's a girl!" and more normalized now, more focus on the music than the fact that there's a female member (or her physical appearance), which is kool. Same kind of thing happened with hardcore punk where 'female-fronted hardcore' would be a term people used that didn't really signify anything musically significant, just that the vocalist was female. The term was eventually was met with disdain (though there was always disagreement about the term) since it became really fetishized and sounds gimmicky anyway, like some people would listen just because someone in the band is female instead of actually appreciating the music itself which is pretty disrespectful to her artistic output. I hardly see anyone use that term anymore, but then again I don't really listen to hardcore at all now. Seems like some metal genres have more female fans and than other genres, like DSBM, folk metal, and gothic doom, maybe even power metal. Gothic doom definitely has it's share of female artists.
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Tyrannus
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Post by Tyrannus on Feb 17, 2017 12:02:47 GMT -5
Yeah I definitely am pretty wary of that weird fetishism that surrounds that sort of thing...ultimately I guess gender isn't really super relevant to the sound (unless the artist wants it to be), but I guess it's just something I haven't personally encountered much so it surprised me. It's interesting that you say it's more normalized now because I feel like there's still a lot of weird stigma surrounding it to some extent, but yeah it's definitely better than it was. Black metal is getting a lot better about that too I think but I don't think the problem has gone away entirely. I think it sort of reflects how we've made progress as a society but we're still far from perfect
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Post by thekeeper on Feb 17, 2017 12:43:50 GMT -5
Yeah I definitely am pretty wary of that weird fetishism that surrounds that sort of thing...ultimately I guess gender isn't really super relevant to the sound (unless the artist wants it to be), but I guess it's just something I haven't personally encountered much so it surprised me. It's interesting that you say it's more normalized now because I feel like there's still a lot of weird stigma surrounding it to some extent, but yeah it's definitely better than it was. Black metal is getting a lot better about that too I think but I don't think the problem has gone away entirely. I think it sort of reflects how we've made progress as a society but we're still far from perfect I can only speak from my own observation, granted it's just from the internet and what shows I've been to, and observing genres as a whole I guess. There's still definitely "ooh there's girl!"-ness in BM, and I'm sure female board members would be able to speak more on that, but it has seemed to have lessened some over time. But maybe I'm wrong; could just be where I live, it's hard for me to tell. Take Myrkur for a new example. There's a lot of controversy about her, but from what critiques I've read from other BM artists it's largely about whether her music is spiritually authentic to BM. As far as listener critique, it does often head in another direction ("don't read the comments"). I know she's made some statements against people categorizing her as a 'one-woman project'. I mean, she literally is, but I think she was talking about people being "ooh a black metal girl!" instead of authentically listening out of music interest. Personally, her music doesn't interest me, though she does have a nice choral voice. Female singing does add a really nice element to a lot of black metal, so 'female fronted' may have some more validity in BM than in hardcore since there's an actual specific element added by female sung vocals instead of like hardcore where everyone is for the most part just shouting so gender would make less of an audible difference.
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Post by kaptaincarbon on Feb 17, 2017 12:44:03 GMT -5
As for women in black metal, this list is always funny to look through since it is so expansive with a bunch of bands I haven't checked out. rateyourmusic.com/list/drowned_scars/the_ladies_of_black_metal/As for DS, I do find it funny that I know most of the creators are guys, the anonymity of it all makes you all just avatars or fictional characters in this world.
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Canrith
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Post by Canrith on Feb 17, 2017 13:11:51 GMT -5
Update: Onoskelis is not Kosemet & Primeval Spell is not a female.*
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Canrith
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Post by Canrith on Feb 17, 2017 13:13:40 GMT -5
Note: Cristahel of Rowen & Hollow Myths is in fact a girl.*
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Post by thekeeper on Feb 17, 2017 13:17:14 GMT -5
Update: Onoskelis is not Kosemet & Primeval Spell is not a female.* I think he was just saying Kosemet is female as well as Onoskelis. Primeval Spell isn't female? I was just assuming based on the tape picture. Who's the picture of? Note: Cristahel of Rowen & Hollow Myths is in fact a girl.* When is this finally coming out? I remember you posting pictures on FB months ago.
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Canrith
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Post by Canrith on Feb 17, 2017 13:30:56 GMT -5
Update: Onoskelis is not Kosemet & Primeval Spell is not a female.* I think he was just saying Kosemet is female as well as Onoskelis. Primeval Spell isn't female? I was just assuming based on the tape picture. Who's the picture of? Note: Cristahel of Rowen & Hollow Myths is in fact a girl.* When is this finally coming out? I remember you posting pictures on FB months ago. Ah, I see. Yes, Kosemet is a female. And the picture you speak of is Orkroth. Rowen will appear in the near future.*
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Post by chaucerianmyth on Feb 17, 2017 13:45:14 GMT -5
I agree with Tyrannus that I still see a lot of weird stigma and fetishizing which is pretty gross and unfortunate. However, I do think that, in many regards, this is starting to transition to more normalized perceptions of women in metal genres (and male-dominated musics in general). I definitely think things are only going to get better. I think the issue with Dungeon Synth is two-fold. Historically, both metal/rock/underground music as well as nerd culture have been heavily male-dominated and, in the case of nerd culture, pretty sexist as well. This is really starting to change now for the better, but I think it explains why it's taking longer for Dungeon Synth to accrue a solid amount of women artists in comparison to other genres. Right now, a lot of the blatant sexism has gone by the wayside, especially among younger people, and that's great. Now, the biggest problem I see is with people in various scenes who deny that such problems exist at all, which, in some ways, can be even worse. Still, I'm glad to see the many improvements that are occurring.
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Post by andrewwerdna on Feb 17, 2017 21:06:52 GMT -5
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Post by Verminaard on Feb 18, 2017 6:56:47 GMT -5
I mean, I'm all for anyone of any gender being a fan or an artist of any type of music. However, in dungeon synth, I don't think the distinction is important, unless there are vocals. I'm much more interested in the gender of the artist only if there are vocals, and then only because, well, male and female vocals obviously tend to give off different feels, even harsh vocals -- a band like Darkened Nocturn Slaughtercult would sound pretty different if their vocalist was a guy. But yeah, since dungeon synth is typically instrumental, I'm not really concerned with it -- like I said, not meant to brush it off, I just don't find that it impacts the music much.
It is worth noting though there are MANY female artists in genres closely related to dungeon synth -- neoclassical darkwave in particular comes to mind. Artists like Aythis, Dargaard, Artesia, Dark Sanctuary, etc.
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Tyrannus
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Post by Tyrannus on Feb 18, 2017 11:01:48 GMT -5
I mean, I'm all for anyone of any gender being a fan or an artist of any type of music. However, in dungeon synth, I don't think the distinction is important, unless there are vocals. I'm much more interested in the gender of the artist only if there are vocals, and then only because, well, male and female vocals obviously tend to give off different feels, even harsh vocals -- a band like Darkened Nocturn Slaughtercult would sound pretty different if their vocalist was a guy. But yeah, since dungeon synth is typically instrumental, I'm not really concerned with it -- like I said, not meant to brush it off, I just don't find that it impacts the music much. It is worth noting though there are MANY female artists in genres closely related to dungeon synth -- neoclassical darkwave in particular comes to mind. Artists like Aythis, Dargaard, Artesia, Dark Sanctuary, etc. Hm I was more curious about women in dungeon synth from like a cultural perspective than a sonic one but you do highlight a good point in that it typically doesn't really impact the music in this case!
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Canrith
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Post by Canrith on Feb 18, 2017 15:31:33 GMT -5
Aghast
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Post by Ananoriel on Feb 20, 2017 8:50:38 GMT -5
I remembered that in Elves & Dwarves is a woman as well. I read it in a Facebook comment a while ago. I agree with Verminaard: gender isn't important in this genre, most artists are anonymous anyways. Unless it is about vocals, sometimes female vocals fit more than male vocals and vice versa. But it is still cool to see who is behind a project, I like that it are different kinds of people.
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