nazgaldracul
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Post by nazgaldracul on Mar 30, 2017 0:36:39 GMT -5
I am thinking about taking my DS project live. Related to this I have some thoughts and questions.
I know Dungeon Synth isn't much of a live genre and that there are rather few acts within the genre that is taking their music to the stage. However I think it could be interesting if not beneficial/promoting for the genre. I also realize that the scene is quite small and that there won't be many DS acts headlining any major festivals any time soon, but I am used to playing metal in front of five people and I'm sure I won't be losing much audience performing Dungeon Synth instead. I have however never performed any electronic music live and was wondering if anyone has any experience or tips/thoughts to share.
My main issue is how to perform the music. I personally use a daw with a midi controller and vst instruments to create my electronic music, but I am currently in the process of buying a cheap keyboard simply to authenticate my DS. I am however a human being with two arms and with a cheap keyboard I'm only able to play a chord progression and a melody at the same time and only in one sound. Should I simplify my music to fit only one instrument or should I play with backing tracks? And if I'm using backing tracks then should I simply play over my own songs, remove a synth track and play that or only having some basic drum and chord pattern to which I add melody?
I would also love to hear your general thoughts of playing Dungeon Synth live. Has anyone here ever done it? Is there any interest for it? Do you think the genre even fit in a live setting?
Thanks in advance.
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olofdigre
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Post by olofdigre on Mar 30, 2017 4:37:17 GMT -5
I have played live powerelectronics and experimental electonics and dark ambient. I use pre-recorded groundworks on tape played on deck and i usualy have CDr as backup. Then i play the sounds and do the mike over that. Nibbling nobs and mixing tapes to make it dynamic. I would say that try to prerecord the base or something and play live over that. Dont have your complete set on just on tape but instead have two and ,mix the one by one them so you cant get stuck. And have samplings as plan b
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Tyrannus
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Knowledge is Night
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Post by Tyrannus on Mar 30, 2017 11:11:50 GMT -5
I was considering doing this myself. I figured I could maybe incorporate a looper pedal, and plug that into the speaker port on my laptop (since I do midi also). I could loop one thing and then play something else over it, theoretically. I also think it'd be fun to play with others, maybe form a DS "band" of sorts
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Post by ranseur on Mar 30, 2017 14:18:40 GMT -5
Been wanting to do it with ranseur but I haven't gotten around to it, but I don't use over dubs except a white noise backing track so it would be pretty easy.
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Tyrannus
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Post by Tyrannus on Mar 30, 2017 16:43:38 GMT -5
Been wanting to do it with ranseur but I haven't gotten around to it, but I don't use over dubs except a white noise backing track so it would be pretty easy. It's similar for me, really, although I usually have two layers or so. It might be doable
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nazgaldracul
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Post by nazgaldracul on Apr 1, 2017 22:50:25 GMT -5
Who knows where the future will take my music, but as for now there is too much going on in my compositions to be able to play with no sort of backup. Not that i can't appreciate some lo fi simplistic dungeon noise, and it would be easier to play live indeed, but as my journey through the dungeons hasn't brought me there yet I think I might copy the base to a tape or something for that underground feeling and play something on top, maybe add some noise or even acoustic instruments.
The dungeon synth band idea is indeed interesting as well. I myself was thinking about bringing a friend or something along to do some stage art or any kind of show (i kmow some people that can spit fire and stuff like that) and maybe do some expositional vocals while i did the music, kinda make an experience out of it. However a whole band would really be something fresh, but it is hard to find someone who can read sheet music or have the time to practice. It could also take away some of the improvisational elements i hope to incorporate in my liveshow, but done right it could have been really interesting.
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Post by nahadoth on Apr 2, 2017 8:03:40 GMT -5
I'm not sure if the guy from Effluvium is here on this forum, but he's touring this summer. I recently experimented with recording some live tracks with just piano and synth (Rick Wakeman style (lol)) and was reasonably pleased with the result. But that requires a lot of practice time to get the keyboard skills up.
Otherwise, I suspected it would work with a looper, or samples or backing track as people have suggested. I like the idea of maybe recording elements of a track onto a 4-track cassette machine and live mixing them. I did that once for a definitely not-DS performance, but haven't yet tried it with my project.
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Post by chaucerianmyth on Apr 2, 2017 14:32:50 GMT -5
I've been preparing to do a live show for a while now, and it's been a chore and a half planning for it. I'm going to be incorporating live musicians and backing tracks to make the show more authentic and entertaining (if too much of it is just backing tracks, they might as well just listen to the album), but it's a ton of work for the more complex arrangements, so I feel what you're going through. I definitely recommend doing as few backing tracks as possible, but I think as long as you have as many musicians as are in the typical metal band, people will be satisfied.
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Post by antimosh002 on Apr 4, 2017 6:34:28 GMT -5
i don't know if dungeon synth is something i'd be particularly keen to see live. i like the bedroom vibes.
i think the big question is whether or not you should put on a 'show', with costume and set for atmosphere. Mortiis used to come out in full regalia and had live drums, kind of like NON/Boyd Rice or Death in June. i suppose that's pretty cool. but it could go very wrong, and just look pretty tacky. i think i'd prefer a wee nerdy guy with a couple synths sitting at the back of the room with the lights down, tbh.
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nazgaldracul
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Post by nazgaldracul on Apr 4, 2017 10:52:31 GMT -5
i don't know if dungeon synth is something i'd be particularly keen to see live. i like the bedroom vibes. i think the big question is whether or not you should put on a 'show', with costume and set for atmosphere. Mortiis used to come out in full regalia and had live drums, kind of like NON/Boyd Rice or Death in June. i suppose that's pretty cool. but it could go very wrong, and just look pretty tacky. i think i'd prefer a wee nerdy guy with a couple synths sitting at the back of the room with the lights down, tbh. Not all of us are wee nerdy guys and I think there are many ways to put on a show. I personally wouldn't be comfortable performing looking down on my synths doing nothing. I myself would not take anything from the live show of Mortiis. Not that it's not a good show or anything, but there are other visuals that are less industrial that i'd rather incorporate. I like the medieval/viking setting and I would play much more on that with folk instruments and visuals reflecting that. Others might do a fantasy setting incorporating themes and visuals reflecting that. I would however not go to shoegaze or indie concert due to the lack of enthusiasm and crowd contact so why on gods green earth would i incorporate that into my stage performance?
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Post by antimosh002 on Apr 5, 2017 8:42:48 GMT -5
i dunno how shoegaze/indie came into the convo, but fair enough.
on the subject of whether or not to use a backing track, i think you should consider using a sequencer. there's two ways to do that. you can either go out and buy a hardware sequencer, which would be expensive but fun, or you could make sequences on a laptop and trigger them with a midi controller. either method would give you more live control than a pre-recorded backing track would. it would look better from the audience's perspective, and you could improvise a lot more. then you could use other bits of hardware over the top, live.
tbh, i don't see the point in getting other musicians and heaps of instruments involved. i'm massively into techno, so i'm used to seeing people play live with a laptop and a couple synths. once you've seen it a few times, it becomes clear who is actually playing live and who is just pressing play and then fiddling with the levels.
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Post by Ananoriel on Apr 5, 2017 17:53:02 GMT -5
I have seen some dark ambient and noise artists live at a very small venue a few years ago. It was very cozy, the 'crowd' sat on the floor, the artist was playing music from a table with all kinds of samplers, synths and effect pedals and few of them used a beamer for a background video or image. I think to make it more fitting to the DS aesthetic, you can do some setdressing with candles and skulls for example. But it can be very simple as well, I think it does not matter that much, as long as the music is good. It can be possible for sure, I think most of the promoting will be underground, on forums and music pages, since it is very niche.
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Post by Dakhma on Apr 19, 2017 2:33:36 GMT -5
I've done a few live shows as Svartedauden in the past, one in a basement and a couple at a local venue. It really does help that it's a two-man project, though, as we can have varied sounds and more layers than a single person with a keyboard could achieve (although I've been thinking about doing something like that in the future, very very stripped-down). We just set up couple of keyboards to amplifiers/PA system and played our songs, with lights dimmed and a lot of candles lit. We wore robes (really cheap ones, not that nice to look at but cheap) and spoke very little between songs. We even have a banner of the group name in runes. For a couple of the shows the audience sat on the floor and got to zone out to the music - despite being on a stage it was very intimate with the low light and dungeon synth atmospheres.
I think that if you can do it somewhere a little unconventional like a basement or an attic where you can be close to the audience and surround them in ambiance then you can really make it work.
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Alder
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Murky dungeon sounds: alderen.bandcamp.com
Posts: 228
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Post by Alder on Apr 19, 2017 15:01:29 GMT -5
I have seen some dark ambient and noise artists live at a very small venue a few years ago. It was very cozy, the 'crowd' sat on the floor, the artist was playing music from a table with all kinds of samplers, synths and effect pedals and few of them used a beamer for a background video or image. I think to make it more fitting to the DS aesthetic, you can do some setdressing with candles and skulls for example. But it can be very simple as well, I think it does not matter that much, as long as the music is good. It can be possible for sure, I think most of the promoting will be underground, on forums and music pages, since it is very niche. I think you're hitting on some key points here. The first being that a DS show is almost certainly going to have a small audience at this point, and small crowds are the best if you can make things intimate and bring them into the Mood of your stuff. Candles are amazing. One guy I know does textural, atmospheric solo guitar type music and pretty much mesmerizes the crowd by turning down all the lights and performing in front of a single, guttering candle. No tacky, over-the-top whatever with great effect. That said, costumes and masks are a great experience, even if shitty-made, if the intention's genuine. Giving music the same fullness you make at home while keeping the improv spirit alive is hard. However, I've found that two people can build up 8x the musical "thickness" as one. I've done a fair amount of fully improvised noise-like music with one other partner to great success. A simple drum machine you've pre-programmed and a trigger pedal can go a long way. Perhaps DS would work with a setup where one person does texture/ambient stuff and background themes while the other focuses on basic chord progression + melody. Depends on the type of DS you're slinging (i.e., Chaucerian Myth type midieval chanter-y stuff would be way more difficult!). With the right mood and rapport I think a departure from the album sounds will be welcome - it's probably best to consider your 'live DS' vs. your 'bedroom DS' as two distinct but related projects. As for the niche-ness of DS, we should think about what other sorts of music would go well as co-acts in a live show. Variety to bring in tangential interest, y'know. Black metal and winter synth may seem obvious, but in my experience BM has isolated itself as its own thing and I've never seen any winter-y stuff live (probably for the same reasons live DS is so rare). Dark ambient could be great. Maybe noise artists? Nothing too harsh or punk-related, but atmospheric and acoustic noise projects could make good bedfellows. Also retrowave or dark synthy revival stuff (if unsure, see Erang's Anti-Future). I'd be super-duper interested in seeing live DS in general, especially if it was community-oriented stuff with lots of collaboration and some weird venues. Local college radio groups could be the right people to contact. Perhaps this forum could do with an ongoing thread of who's interested in playing live & where (unless that already exists).
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Alder
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Murky dungeon sounds: alderen.bandcamp.com
Posts: 228
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Post by Alder on Apr 19, 2017 15:02:14 GMT -5
I've done a few live shows as Svartedauden in the past, one in a basement and a couple at a local venue. It really does help that it's a two-man project, though, as we can have varied sounds and more layers than a single person with a keyboard could achieve (although I've been thinking about doing something like that in the future, very very stripped-down). We just set up couple of keyboards to amplifiers/PA system and played our songs, with lights dimmed and a lot of candles lit. We wore robes (really cheap ones, not that nice to look at but cheap) and spoke very little between songs. We even have a banner of the group name in runes. For a couple of the shows the audience sat on the floor and got to zone out to the music - despite being on a stage it was very intimate with the low light and dungeon synth atmospheres. I think that if you can do it somewhere a little unconventional like a basement or an attic where you can be close to the audience and surround them in ambiance then you can really make it work. You wouldn't happen to have any recordings of your live shows, would you?
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