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Post by DieuxDesCimetieres on Jul 21, 2017 13:44:50 GMT -5
First of all, sorry if there is a thread for this already. I looked around and didn't see one. And sorry if this is in the wrong section.
Many of us here have our own dungeon synth projects, or projects closely related to the genre, and I'm guessing all of us have our own, unique ways of working whilst making music. I thought it would be nice to have a thread dedicated to general discussion about songwriting, recording, producing et cetera. A thread for the musicians to talk to their colleagues, ask questions and give answers.
To start off, on average, how many different tracks/instruments do you usually have on a single song? And how do you tell when a track is ready?
I usually have anything between three to ten tracks in my projects, not counting the percussion. One or two bass tracks, one or two chord tracks, a few different lead instruments and some supporting layers to provide fullness to the track. Getting everything but the "padding" layers done is pretty easy, but I sometimes find it hard to decide when enough is enough, or if I should keep on layering more padding tracks. Often the balance is hard to find, when a track is just perfect instead of being too bare or being too busy. On the other hand, rarely do I in retrospect feel that a track has too much or too little going on in it, when I finish the project and export it to .wav.
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Post by garvalf on Jul 21, 2017 15:23:45 GMT -5
I was used to compose chiptune music for years, with only 3 to 4 tracks available, maybe it helps me to keep things simple. But now I tend to have between 3 to 10 tracks, like you do
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olofdigre
Knight
digre.bandcamp.com
Posts: 376
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Post by olofdigre on Jul 21, 2017 16:48:10 GMT -5
Yeah. Doing chiptune with famitracker as I do for digre is 3 tracks with one voice each and a noice track for drums that i do not use other than to make rain, sea or thunder. I love the linitations of the nes. I have ised lsdj for gameboy befor but i do not have one today.
For erdig i use multible methods. Maybe I do a rythmic baselinsne with famitracker and over dub it with a melodie while recording it to tape then i mix it live eith another tape with fieldrecordings and noice and record the mix to another tape that i transfere to my computer and do some EQ. When working with my portastudio i have 3 or 4 tracks but there is still dubing back and forth with tapes, minidisc and finsly computer.
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Post by nahadoth on Jul 30, 2017 8:26:14 GMT -5
When using a 4 track, I used some creative solutions - my keyboard has a pretty easy to use split function, so with some planning it makes it very possible to switch or combine voices on the fly. When using the 4 track I've tried as much as possible to avoid mixdowns or overdubs because it feels like "cheating", and instead I'll just go directly into the computer.
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olofdigre
Knight
digre.bandcamp.com
Posts: 376
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Post by olofdigre on Jul 30, 2017 11:15:56 GMT -5
When using a 4 track, I used some creative solutions - my keyboard has a pretty easy to use split function, so with some planning it makes it very possible to switch or combine voices on the fly. When using the 4 track I've tried as much as possible to avoid mixdowns or overdubs because it feels like "cheating", and instead I'll just go directly into the computer. Funny you did say that. Everything I do directly into the computer, fadeouts, mixing, EQ, echo and reverb feels like cheating for me.
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Post by nahadoth on Jul 30, 2017 23:19:51 GMT -5
When using a 4 track, I used some creative solutions - my keyboard has a pretty easy to use split function, so with some planning it makes it very possible to switch or combine voices on the fly. When using the 4 track I've tried as much as possible to avoid mixdowns or overdubs because it feels like "cheating", and instead I'll just go directly into the computer. Funny you did say that. Everything I do directly into the computer, fadeouts, mixing, EQ, echo and reverb feels like cheating for me. I made peace with it and used it only for editing, but still tried to limit myself to only 4 tracks for the first two albums recorded this way - nothing was added that was not present on the original 4 -track cassette, except in one case a nature sound.
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Post by stormcrow on Oct 11, 2017 1:12:14 GMT -5
this is a great topic for sharing methods and styling inputs! Since I see DS like freedom of expression at its maximum, I simply don't care about "how many tracks" are working inside a multitrack project...obviously, I try to use not too many "instruments" (or it would become hollywood symphonic music!): 1 for chords, 1 for main themes (which is the most important part of songs, for me), 1 for bass lines, 1 for percussion. The arrangment format could be more rich, it depends on styling, rhythm, mood etc....in the next, first EP by Sidereal Fortress you will hear a heavily enriched song just because of its "cinema" style.
My only rule is quite ethical: I always use ONE synth, because for me it's important to keep sounds coherent with each other (think of ambience, for example). Next EP is recorded with just ONE plugin for all of melodic and harmonic parts. Yes, I compose/play with VST instruments.....
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Post by DieuxDesCimetieres on Oct 12, 2017 3:15:33 GMT -5
I like to mix different VST's quite a lot. Of course, their sounds have to mesh, but I find that using the same effect VST's for each (I usually use only delay and apply some compression to each track) is of great help here. But then, I strive for a less "synth" sound and instead prefer VST's and Soundfonts that sound as close as possible to the instruments they emulate. Sometimes I use as much as five or six different instrument VST's per song (not counting percussion), and some of my favourite ones will usually have several instances.
Right now I am working on a track which I strive to make as epic as possible... lots of choirs, an echoing string instrument melody, stuff like that, and I am experimenting with layering a couple of choir VST's and soundfonts on top of each other to get a massive feel to it. I'm liking the result so far.
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Post by zerointerno on Oct 16, 2017 6:03:21 GMT -5
I am quite about the polyphony, so it is somewhere about 7-12 tracks, and they toss the leading role to each other as the song progresses because I love the idea of tracks doing a kind of "conversation". Approximately only 4-6 of them sound simultaneously tho. Usually melodies are interwined with each other, so I bother with manually checking for each note not to create a dissonance with any other single note which sounds at the same time, and thats quite a big work to do. =/
I try to avoid for my music to be repetitive, but it is hard to do if you have not much melodies to build a track, so I bring dynamics either by combining a main melody with other melodies as a song goes on, or by performing a melody with a different voice.
So my rules for my music are these: 1. If you have to repeat a part later - make sure it sounds somehow different than before. 2. No dissonances between voices ever. If you have to do one - make sure no one notices. 3. Each secondary helper line should sound like it makes some sense on its own, even if I mute all other voices. No random polyphonic mess.
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Post by stormcrow on Oct 16, 2017 6:34:32 GMT -5
I agree with points 1 and 3, since I prefer to give DS some "song shape" rather than making it background-like music. About point n.2: it depends on styling, I think... medieval (no dissonances at all)? ethnical ("trademark" dissonances)? symphonic (major 7ths often give nice atmospheres since they're leading tones)? I call "dissonance" every extention of the minor and major triad, do you mean the same?
PS. your "All The Kingdoms" album is really good!!!
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Post by zerointerno on Oct 16, 2017 8:20:43 GMT -5
I agree with points 1 and 3, since I prefer to give DS some "song shape" rather than making it background-like music. About point n.2: it depends on styling, I think... medieval (no dissonances at all)? ethnical ("trademark" dissonances)? symphonic (major 7ths often give nice atmospheres since they're leading tones)? I call "dissonance" every extention of the minor and major triad, do you mean the same? PS. your "All The Kingdoms" album is really good!!! Thanks! I appreciate that. It was a long work. Speaking about the dissonances - i mean if there is a dissonant interval betwen any two simultaneous notes (no matter if they belong to same layer track or not) - a 2nd or a 7th or their octaved extensions (like 9ths) - i consider them a dissonance and if I stumble upon such a thing when going through my drafts - that means I did something wrong and I have to re-work that part somehow. That happened quite often, and I often give them thorough explorations to hunt these out. Any off-scale notes are considered dissonances too - like if you run a E-minor melody and accompany them with melodic percussions which feature F notes. Tritones are a special thing - they are based dissonances too but I consider them to be not, so I use them at will. In general I dont mind dissonances in other peoples music as long as they sound coherent and apposite. But I never managed to make anything good with them - it always felt like a kick in the balls, so I decided to make them a no-no thing for myself. That limits me somehow in an expressive way and make my borders stricter but on the other hand it helps to keep my DS clean and refined. Just consider it my style =) I am more tolerant to dissonances when playing Black Metal tho.
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Post by nahadoth on Oct 16, 2017 9:56:26 GMT -5
All about the passing tones! I love when there feels like a very visceral dissonance but it resolves nicely into the next chord. I think I know what you mean, though - it's hard to use them intentionally. But if used well they can be very disorienting in a good way, which is very useful for the drone-y hypnotic styles of DS.
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Post by cryptzzz on May 1, 2022 7:30:37 GMT -5
This will be probably very general question but how do you compose your tracks? Im an amatour in that respect and very often I just improvise, I have a really hard time having a song in progress for a couple of days, weeks, etc. Of course it's seriously limiting (or maybe not?). I just like to execute the idea as quickly as possible. What your process of composing usually look like? Do you plan things on paper, record sketches of melodies, etc?
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Post by freknur on May 1, 2022 8:13:19 GMT -5
Most of the time, I get an idea for a melody, a sound, or something like that in my head, open my DAW, and try to record it. That means I always have a collection of small ideas that I can then expand when I have time. For this I sit down every now and then for a few hours at the computer and try so long with this idea around and add new sounds, suitable chords/support melodies, rhythms and so on, until it has become a song. But I would also like to play with a live set and am currently trying out what hardware I would need for that. I think that the process would be completely different.
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Post by ancientremains on Sept 21, 2022 2:04:46 GMT -5
My goal was to be able to perform live and I have given a lot of thought to how to achieve what I envisioned. My no 1 rule was no laptop/daw on stage. How I achieved it is with a zoom l12 loaded with multiple tracks which can be brought in and out and manipulated individually. This then runs through various delays and reverbs. Over the top of this I play a live keyboard and use a looper in one shot mode for spoken passages. They key to this set up is in the preparation of the backings running on the l12. Keeping note of the multiple tracks and being aware of the digital clock for things like key changes is important with this set up but even with a minimal amount of tracks loaded there is great scope for variety and the hands on live aspect can result in quite unexpected and exciting results.
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