|
Post by deragule on Jul 28, 2022 5:48:26 GMT -5
Hi there. For some time now I have been "suffering" this kind of dry effect in practically everything I have been creating. As if it were a kind of "I want to but I can't". An example would this one, not finished and a little raw, more similar to an idea or sketch, but I think you can get the idea specially in the space between 0:33-1:05: soundcloud.com/deragule/a-merciful-hand-raised-like-her-sonWhat effects do you know, beyond reverb and other typical tools, to give that feeling of wide ambience and what could you advise me to highlight certain parts of a track (effects, use of more or less instruments and their prominence, etc.).
|
|
|
Post by mahrgdidj on Jul 28, 2022 8:19:17 GMT -5
Not sure I can pinpoint exactly what you’re asking, but if you’re looking for a more “spacious” sound then reverb is gonna be the easiest way to accomplish that. For more separation of the instruments, a little light EQ can pull things apart some. Run a spectrum analysis on each of the individual instrument tracks (many DAWs have a spectrum analyzer built in) and make cuts in conflicting frequency spaces (e.g., if your organ and pads both have a lot of 1k, eq a little dip in one of the tracks at that frequency band). It sounds like you’re already doing some panning too, but that’s a trick a lean on pretty heavily to add room to a mix. You could also try a very wet reverb on one track panned hard to one side with a totally dry track panned to the other.
|
|
|
Post by deragule on Jul 28, 2022 9:58:57 GMT -5
Not sure I can pinpoint exactly what you’re asking, but if you’re looking for a more “spacious” sound then reverb is gonna be the easiest way to accomplish that. For more separation of the instruments, a little light EQ can pull things apart some. Run a spectrum analysis on each of the individual instrument tracks (many DAWs have a spectrum analyzer built in) and make cuts in conflicting frequency spaces (e.g., if your organ and pads both have a lot of 1k, eq a little dip in one of the tracks at that frequency band). It sounds like you’re already doing some panning too, but that’s a trick a lean on pretty heavily to add room to a mix. You could also try a very wet reverb on one track panned hard to one side with a totally dry track panned to the other. That's basically what I'm asking, you got it. When I use EQ I usually look there for the most predominant frequencies, but I guess it would be nice using the spectrum analysis even in the master to see if any area is too hot and then track down the "culprits". What I meant by this 'dry effect' at the beginning, to clarify, is not about the dry/wet from the reverb, but that the mix lacks something, it's like an abscence of that force I mention on the subject and whose cause I don't usually find, so there I was just asking some general advice if someone is familiar with that situation. What I'm using right now to try to create that atmosphere is volume, dry/wet, ER, velocity and panning modulation, so maybe there's some major tool or technique other than those that I don't know about, like trying that wet/dry panning you mention at the end. I'll experiment with it for sure. Thanks for helping!
|
|
Painter
Squire
Let me paint your album covers.
Posts: 97
|
Post by Painter on Jul 28, 2022 11:13:56 GMT -5
I have no idea what I'm talking about when I say this, so don't think that this is an established technique or anything, just an idea I came up with on the spot when you said "No Reverb";
What if you messed with the levels of certain instruments to make them sound further away? In my mind, that would still use reverb to some extent, maybe it would need to be delayed by a beat or a beat and a half, maybe an echo, or some panning, to give it a sense of location relevant to the listener. No idea how else to accomplish this. These sorts of things are easier for me to think about visually than musically.
|
|
|
Post by deragule on Jul 28, 2022 11:58:53 GMT -5
I have no idea what I'm talking about when I say this, so don't think that this is an established technique or anything, just an idea I came up with on the spot when you said "No Reverb"; What if you messed with the levels of certain instruments to make them sound further away? In my mind, that would still use reverb to some extent, maybe it would need to be delayed by a beat or a beat and a half, maybe an echo, or some panning, to give it a sense of location relevant to the listener. No idea how else to accomplish this. These sorts of things are easier for me to think about visually than musically. Hmm, I'll take a look but I don't think I messed something related to that. I'll give an example: The piccolo that is heard at the beginning and after the first half of the track and for which I have several automations. This instrument represents the cry of a child first, and at the beginning you hear the rattle of a horse cart approaching it, so what I do is the following: - Modulate the ER. - Dry low at the beginning, high in the second half when the child is close (I could subtract some WET as well, but I don't feel like it at the moment). - The volume is increasing at the beginning as we get closer and at the end it's fixed, as we are next to the child and it stays next to us. - The panning varies slightly to give the sensation that we are not only getting closer, but there are also curves in the path that make us change the angle with respect to the child, who remains still at the same point. My main problem right now is not so much to be able to locate the instruments where I want, but that the mix is a bit bland (or that's how it sounds to me) and I don't know if it could be because some instruments or sounds are stepping on others as mahrgdidj indicated or what, and for that I show the following, by the way: That is the point where there are more different instruments and sounds at the same time and where there is more saturation, I don't know if anyone is able to see something wrong with the meter. Be that as it may, I have yet to apply any of the advice I have been given here.
|
|
engraven
Fighter
No heroes. No lords.
Posts: 119
|
Post by engraven on Jul 28, 2022 19:48:22 GMT -5
Using lighter delays on individual instrument tracks instead of just throwing reverb on the whole mix can go a long way towards adding space to things, and won't wash everything out. You still want punch.
It honestly sounds like you're looking more for something to just liven up the mix than to make it wetter. It sounds like you more want some depth, harmonics, and saturation. This can be as simple as running the mix through a solid compressor or limiter plugin. There's a million emulations of the LA-2A compressor/limiter that basically make things sound more 'alive' just by running through them, and there's another million analogues. Hell even just running the instruments or mix through a good preamp or preamp plugin (preferably emulation of an analog preamp unit) goes a long way toward adding depth/harmonics/saturation.
Try using some plugins (or hardware if you have access) that is intended for mastering -- another example would be the million or so emulations of the Massive Passive EQ. That seems to be more what you're looking for than anything to do with effects on individual instruments.
As for making certain instruments sound farther away than others, volume is always going to be an imperfect tool to achieve that effect. Volume/gain is essentially an imperfect tool to accomplish anything -- compression, EQ, and panning will always be superior. This particular technique can be accomplished most easily with a reverb that has a 'Distance' knob. Dry/wet is much the same in that it isn't really going to actually mimic the circumstances of something being farther away or closer. Distance is better, but Predelay can be tweaked instead if your reverb has no Distance. Many reverbs have a 'Space' knob or setting too, or some way of modifying the 'size' of the simulated room/hall -- increasing/decreasing this will work better to change the 'space' and 'place' than Dry/Wet.
I can definitely go into more detail and be more exact if you want, just let me know what particular plugins/hardware you have access to and I can take a look and help figure out how to get them to do what you want. I think you'd do well to seek out some mastering plugins though, I can give a few recommendations depending on whether you're looking to spend any money or find something free.
|
|
|
Post by deragule on Jul 30, 2022 6:44:39 GMT -5
Using lighter delays on individual instrument tracks instead of just throwing reverb on the whole mix can go a long way towards adding space to things, and won't wash everything out. You still want punch. It honestly sounds like you're looking more for something to just liven up the mix than to make it wetter. It sounds like you more want some depth, harmonics, and saturation. This can be as simple as running the mix through a solid compressor or limiter plugin. There's a million emulations of the LA-2A compressor/limiter that basically make things sound more 'alive' just by running through them, and there's another million analogues. Hell even just running the instruments or mix through a good preamp or preamp plugin (preferably emulation of an analog preamp unit) goes a long way toward adding depth/harmonics/saturation. Try using some plugins (or hardware if you have access) that is intended for mastering -- another example would be the million or so emulations of the Massive Passive EQ. That seems to be more what you're looking for than anything to do with effects on individual instruments. As for making certain instruments sound farther away than others, volume is always going to be an imperfect tool to achieve that effect. Volume/gain is essentially an imperfect tool to accomplish anything -- compression, EQ, and panning will always be superior. This particular technique can be accomplished most easily with a reverb that has a 'Distance' knob. Dry/wet is much the same in that it isn't really going to actually mimic the circumstances of something being farther away or closer. Distance is better, but Predelay can be tweaked instead if your reverb has no Distance. Many reverbs have a 'Space' knob or setting too, or some way of modifying the 'size' of the simulated room/hall -- increasing/decreasing this will work better to change the 'space' and 'place' than Dry/Wet. I can definitely go into more detail and be more exact if you want, just let me know what particular plugins/hardware you have access to and I can take a look and help figure out how to get them to do what you want. I think you'd do well to seek out some mastering plugins though, I can give a few recommendations depending on whether you're looking to spend any money or find something free. First of all thank you for the extensive answer, too rich in advice for me. It's like that, what I want is to sound more animated or alive in the sense of greater presence or impact. It's not necessarily about more stridency, but more depth. I have uploaded another small track that I am more satisfied with, hopefully adding more context to what I am trying to ask here: soundcloud.com/deragule/battle-callsI'll show you the list of effects plugins I have access to right now: That said, is there a specific priority that tends to work best when placing these effects in the mixer? For example: 1 EQ - 2 Compression - 3 Reverb. In my beginnings I was told that the compressors and limiters are basically touched by the devil, and I understand that it is true and that's why I have not learned too much to use them nor their real intention, so I can tell you that compressors I use are to give more presence to the percussion or to slightly limit some frequencies and that I only used once a limiter for this practice, to which the same thing happens (although the truth is I did them with cheap earphones, like many other things): soundcloud.com/deragule/exampleI didn't even know that there was something called literally Distance, as well as many other things you have named and that I will start to investigate. You've helped me enough just with all you mentioned and I don't feel like stealing anyone's time, but if you want to go further I would appreciate it, and there you should know that right now I don't have access to hardware and I prefer free plugins (remember the cheap earphones? ). I wouldn't mind a few references of paid plugins to write them down, as I do with others, and buy them later. Thanks.
|
|
engraven
Fighter
No heroes. No lords.
Posts: 119
|
Post by engraven on Aug 2, 2022 3:47:37 GMT -5
Using lighter delays on individual instrument tracks instead of just throwing reverb on the whole mix can go a long way towards adding space to things, and won't wash everything out. You still want punch. It honestly sounds like you're looking more for something to just liven up the mix than to make it wetter. It sounds like you more want some depth, harmonics, and saturation. This can be as simple as running the mix through a solid compressor or limiter plugin. There's a million emulations of the LA-2A compressor/limiter that basically make things sound more 'alive' just by running through them, and there's another million analogues. Hell even just running the instruments or mix through a good preamp or preamp plugin (preferably emulation of an analog preamp unit) goes a long way toward adding depth/harmonics/saturation. Try using some plugins (or hardware if you have access) that is intended for mastering -- another example would be the million or so emulations of the Massive Passive EQ. That seems to be more what you're looking for than anything to do with effects on individual instruments. As for making certain instruments sound farther away than others, volume is always going to be an imperfect tool to achieve that effect. Volume/gain is essentially an imperfect tool to accomplish anything -- compression, EQ, and panning will always be superior. This particular technique can be accomplished most easily with a reverb that has a 'Distance' knob. Dry/wet is much the same in that it isn't really going to actually mimic the circumstances of something being farther away or closer. Distance is better, but Predelay can be tweaked instead if your reverb has no Distance. Many reverbs have a 'Space' knob or setting too, or some way of modifying the 'size' of the simulated room/hall -- increasing/decreasing this will work better to change the 'space' and 'place' than Dry/Wet. I can definitely go into more detail and be more exact if you want, just let me know what particular plugins/hardware you have access to and I can take a look and help figure out how to get them to do what you want. I think you'd do well to seek out some mastering plugins though, I can give a few recommendations depending on whether you're looking to spend any money or find something free. First of all thank you for the extensive answer, too rich in advice for me. It's like that, what I want is to sound more animated or alive in the sense of greater presence or impact. It's not necessarily about more stridency, but more depth. I have uploaded another small track that I am more satisfied with, hopefully adding more context to what I am trying to ask here: soundcloud.com/deragule/battle-callsI'll show you the list of effects plugins I have access to right now: View AttachmentThat said, is there a specific priority that tends to work best when placing these effects in the mixer? For example: 1 EQ - 2 Compression - 3 Reverb. In my beginnings I was told that the compressors and limiters are basically touched by the devil, and I understand that it is true and that's why I have not learned too much to use them nor their real intention, so I can tell you that compressors I use are to give more presence to the percussion or to slightly limit some frequencies and that I only used once a limiter for this practice, to which the same thing happens (although the truth is I did them with cheap earphones, like many other things): soundcloud.com/deragule/exampleI didn't even know that there was something called literally Distance, as well as many other things you have named and that I will start to investigate. You've helped me enough just with all you mentioned and I don't feel like stealing anyone's time, but if you want to go further I would appreciate it, and there you should know that right now I don't have access to hardware and I prefer free plugins (remember the cheap earphones? ). I wouldn't mind a few references of paid plugins to write them down, as I do with others, and buy them later. Thanks. Generally the rule of thumb is 1. subtractive EQ (meaning EQ where you're removing or lowering frequencies) and low/high pass filters 2. compression 3. additive EQ (meaning EQ where you're raising frequencies) 4. modulators/delays/reverbs -- basically, 'effects' 5. limiter though there is plenty of leeway and different instruments or mixes will call for different things. Compressors are only bad if you're running at high volume/gain. Generally you want your instrument tracks to be running at pretty soft levels (-12db is a good starting point, though certain instruments/sounds are louder than others, and you will have to go lower for busier mixes with more instrument tracks) and to use compression to bring them to the volume you want instead of the volume or gain knob. But overcompressing or compressing tracks that are running too hot will result in a loss of dynamic range. Same with limiters -- as long as you are not running too hot of a mix and not overcompressing, they are your friend, not your enemy haha. Unless you're mixing heavier percussion, limiters should just be there to squash any errant spikes created from your modulators/delays/reverbs at the end of your effects chain as you bring the final volume up to where you want it. You'll want to have all your 'frequency limiting' done before you do any compression or limiting, though. That's what subtractive EQ and low/high pass filters at the beginning of the chain are for. Use a parametric EQ to carve frequencies out of your instrument tracks, or use a low or high pass filter to eliminate everything above or below a certain threshold. It looks like you'd use "Fruity Parametric EQ 2" and "Fruity Filter," respectively, for these. Definitely explore all the settings on the Delays and Reverbs at your disposal. It's been more than 10 years since I've used FL, but I seem to remember that "Fruity Reeverb 2" plugin having something in the way of a Distance or Size shaper. And like I said, try using subtle delays on your instruments; so not so much that they are doing heavy repeating patterns but just to add ring and slight echoes. Something else that will go a long way towards making computer-made music sound more alive is manipulating the velocity of the notes. If you're playing using a MIDI keyboard controller, then just make sure that FL is fully registering your performance, and that your controller is capable of transmitting full velocity range. If you're programming your music note-by-note in FL, then go through and manually adjust the velocity of each note. This can be used to make the playing feel more alive and also to achieve something similar to the 'farther away/closer' effect we were talking about before -- (depending on the sound/instrument) softer note velocities will sound more distant and faded, while harder velocities will sound closer and more immediate/impactful. I remember slapping that "Soundgoodizer" at the very end of all my mixes wayyy back in the day and it making everything sound better haha. But I was very young then and knew very little about production, so I can't say for sure that it is truly worth using. I believe it's essentially just a maximizer, which you can somewhat use as a substitute for a limiter at the end of your chain if you want to add some character or need to add more volume. You'll definitely want to eventually branch out beyond the FL effects, but it's worth investing time into them now as the more you're able to do with them, the more you'll be able to do with better plugins in the future. Their compressor in particular is probably not going to be worth shit for adding color or breathing much life into your mixes, but you'll still want to familiarize yourself with it to better understand compression in general (and it should still be your main tool for controlling the volume of your instruments, rather than volume/gain). But that would be the first thing I'd look to upgrade with better plugins in the future. Finding a decent plugin that emulates a classic analog compressor unit like the LA-2A or 1176 is a very easy way to make your instruments/mixes sound more alive. You can probably find some of these for pretty cheap if you do a little googling (the plugin emulations of these that I use -- made by Universal Audio -- are unfortunately not cheap haha, or else I could recommend something specific). They will basically automatically add depth and character. Same with the additive EQ, FL's Parametric EQs are not going to add color the way a plugin emulating an analog EQ like the Massive Passive would. That would be the next thing I'd upgrade. The Fruity Parametric EQ should be good for subtractive EQ though. You should also be all right using the Fruity Delays and Reverb for a bit. They're not the greatest, but they can get the job done well enough. And their Filter will do just fine for a low/high pass. Hope that all helps you out for now! Definitely keep experimenting and let us know how things continue developing and I can help some more again another time
|
|
|
Post by deragule on Aug 3, 2022 9:55:51 GMT -5
First of all thank you for the extensive answer, too rich in advice for me. It's like that, what I want is to sound more animated or alive in the sense of greater presence or impact. It's not necessarily about more stridency, but more depth. I have uploaded another small track that I am more satisfied with, hopefully adding more context to what I am trying to ask here: soundcloud.com/deragule/battle-callsI'll show you the list of effects plugins I have access to right now: View AttachmentThat said, is there a specific priority that tends to work best when placing these effects in the mixer? For example: 1 EQ - 2 Compression - 3 Reverb. In my beginnings I was told that the compressors and limiters are basically touched by the devil, and I understand that it is true and that's why I have not learned too much to use them nor their real intention, so I can tell you that compressors I use are to give more presence to the percussion or to slightly limit some frequencies and that I only used once a limiter for this practice, to which the same thing happens (although the truth is I did them with cheap earphones, like many other things): soundcloud.com/deragule/exampleI didn't even know that there was something called literally Distance, as well as many other things you have named and that I will start to investigate. You've helped me enough just with all you mentioned and I don't feel like stealing anyone's time, but if you want to go further I would appreciate it, and there you should know that right now I don't have access to hardware and I prefer free plugins (remember the cheap earphones? ). I wouldn't mind a few references of paid plugins to write them down, as I do with others, and buy them later. Thanks. Generally the rule of thumb is 1. subtractive EQ (meaning EQ where you're removing or lowering frequencies) and low/high pass filters 2. compression 3. additive EQ (meaning EQ where you're raising frequencies) 4. modulators/delays/reverbs -- basically, 'effects' 5. limiter though there is plenty of leeway and different instruments or mixes will call for different things. Compressors are only bad if you're running at high volume/gain. Generally you want your instrument tracks to be running at pretty soft levels (-12db is a good starting point, though certain instruments/sounds are louder than others, and you will have to go lower for busier mixes with more instrument tracks) and to use compression to bring them to the volume you want instead of the volume or gain knob. But overcompressing or compressing tracks that are running too hot will result in a loss of dynamic range. Same with limiters -- as long as you are not running too hot of a mix and not overcompressing, they are your friend, not your enemy haha. Unless you're mixing heavier percussion, limiters should just be there to squash any errant spikes created from your modulators/delays/reverbs at the end of your effects chain as you bring the final volume up to where you want it. You'll want to have all your 'frequency limiting' done before you do any compression or limiting, though. That's what subtractive EQ and low/high pass filters at the beginning of the chain are for. Use a parametric EQ to carve frequencies out of your instrument tracks, or use a low or high pass filter to eliminate everything above or below a certain threshold. It looks like you'd use "Fruity Parametric EQ 2" and "Fruity Filter," respectively, for these. Definitely explore all the settings on the Delays and Reverbs at your disposal. It's been more than 10 years since I've used FL, but I seem to remember that "Fruity Reeverb 2" plugin having something in the way of a Distance or Size shaper. And like I said, try using subtle delays on your instruments; so not so much that they are doing heavy repeating patterns but just to add ring and slight echoes. Something else that will go a long way towards making computer-made music sound more alive is manipulating the velocity of the notes. If you're playing using a MIDI keyboard controller, then just make sure that FL is fully registering your performance, and that your controller is capable of transmitting full velocity range. If you're programming your music note-by-note in FL, then go through and manually adjust the velocity of each note. This can be used to make the playing feel more alive and also to achieve something similar to the 'farther away/closer' effect we were talking about before -- (depending on the sound/instrument) softer note velocities will sound more distant and faded, while harder velocities will sound closer and more immediate/impactful. I remember slapping that "Soundgoodizer" at the very end of all my mixes wayyy back in the day and it making everything sound better haha. But I was very young then and knew very little about production, so I can't say for sure that it is truly worth using. I believe it's essentially just a maximizer, which you can somewhat use as a substitute for a limiter at the end of your chain if you want to add some character or need to add more volume. You'll definitely want to eventually branch out beyond the FL effects, but it's worth investing time into them now as the more you're able to do with them, the more you'll be able to do with better plugins in the future. Their compressor in particular is probably not going to be worth shit for adding color or breathing much life into your mixes, but you'll still want to familiarize yourself with it to better understand compression in general (and it should still be your main tool for controlling the volume of your instruments, rather than volume/gain). But that would be the first thing I'd look to upgrade with better plugins in the future. Finding a decent plugin that emulates a classic analog compressor unit like the LA-2A or 1176 is a very easy way to make your instruments/mixes sound more alive. You can probably find some of these for pretty cheap if you do a little googling (the plugin emulations of these that I use -- made by Universal Audio -- are unfortunately not cheap haha, or else I could recommend something specific). They will basically automatically add depth and character. Same with the additive EQ, FL's Parametric EQs are not going to add color the way a plugin emulating an analog EQ like the Massive Passive would. That would be the next thing I'd upgrade. The Fruity Parametric EQ should be good for subtractive EQ though. You should also be all right using the Fruity Delays and Reverb for a bit. They're not the greatest, but they can get the job done well enough. And their Filter will do just fine for a low/high pass. Hope that all helps you out for now! Definitely keep experimenting and let us know how things continue developing and I can help some more again another time About velocity, yes, that's what I do with those instruments that have the option, as well as leaving room for the players to "breathe" with wind instruments or not being totally precise when placing notes. In short: I have taken note of everything you've written, so the next thing I am going to do will be a slow and simple progressive track to practice and experiment with all of this. Thank you very much for taking the trouble to explain these basics. I'll come back with something to share for sure!
|
|
Alder
Magic User
Murky dungeon sounds: alderen.bandcamp.com
Posts: 228
|
Post by Alder on Aug 3, 2022 14:43:38 GMT -5
Loads of great FX advice in this thread, but one of the reasons the sample you shared sounds so flat is the relatively "colorless" key it's in. This is an issue that I notice in loads and loads of DS. Sounds like you are using maybe D Dorian, which (at least to me) is THE "flat-sounding" key in dungeon synth. Many folks have used this key effectively in their music, but mainly when they're shooting for a ' serious, sad, but slightly hopeful' vibe. Definitely a huge amount of subjectivity here, but I often find allegedly epic DS to be flat and boring specifically because they use D Dorian or similar keys which have that 'serious' vibe at first glance, but lack any other relevant deeper emotional color. Since it looks like you are using DAW, you should be able to pretty easily transpose your stuff and see if you can get the emotional color to shift a bit more to your liking, which can greatly "open" or "close" or "flatten" or "weighten" your music in a significant way. Try it out! If you don't know much about keys, poke around online for various charts about the emotional sense or the associated color for various scales. Be wary that there's no "correct" answer, so not all these charts are consistent or accurate. I'd probably recommend some sort of G minor or like Bb minor for what (I think) you are going for, possibly a harmonic variant. Hope I'm not coming off as ranting, but I do think Dungeoneers in general need to play with and pay more attention to their keys when trying to get certain vibes in their music. Attention to key/mode is the main thing that links many of my personal favorites. Here again is yet another chance to push Voormithadreth on others! This album in particular is an excellent example of how the right choice of key can contribute massively to the feel, vibe, and storytelling message of an album: voormithadreth.bandcamp.com/album/the-quest-of-iranon
|
|
|
Post by deragule on Aug 4, 2022 6:04:46 GMT -5
Loads of great FX advice in this thread, but one of the reasons the sample you shared sounds so flat is the relatively "colorless" key it's in. This is an issue that I notice in loads and loads of DS. Sounds like you are using maybe D Dorian, which (at least to me) is THE "flat-sounding" key in dungeon synth. Many folks have used this key effectively in their music, but mainly when they're shooting for a ' serious, sad, but slightly hopeful' vibe. Definitely a huge amount of subjectivity here, but I often find allegedly epic DS to be flat and boring specifically because they use D Dorian or similar keys which have that 'serious' vibe at first glance, but lack any other relevant deeper emotional color. Since it looks like you are using DAW, you should be able to pretty easily transpose your stuff and see if you can get the emotional color to shift a bit more to your liking, which can greatly "open" or "close" or "flatten" or "weighten" your music in a significant way. Try it out! If you don't know much about keys, poke around online for various charts about the emotional sense or the associated color for various scales. Be wary that there's no "correct" answer, so not all these charts are consistent or accurate. I'd probably recommend some sort of G minor or like Bb minor for what (I think) you are going for, possibly a harmonic variant. Hope I'm not coming off as ranting, but I do think Dungeoneers in general need to play with and pay more attention to their keys when trying to get certain vibes in their music. Attention to key/mode is the main thing that links many of my personal favorites. Here again is yet another chance to push Voormithadreth on others! This album in particular is an excellent example of how the right choice of key can contribute massively to the feel, vibe, and storytelling message of an album: voormithadreth.bandcamp.com/album/the-quest-of-iranonHi there. Yes, this post is being of great help indeed. I'm using a D eolic there (if that's how you say it), so all white keys. I went through all the scales some time ago and made sure I understood them, even experimented with the same melody composed in all of them, but there is a problem in my mind and that's it's in aeolian mode almost constantly. I compose by improvising as I go along, and in the end 80% of the time, to say the least, it's the scale I end up using. "Are you happy and in a good mood? Good, so we have the energy to compose in aeolian." "Are you crestfallen today? Perfect, there we have the inspiration to compose in aeolian. To make matters worse, I tend to have this predilection to rely on the A key. This is something I need to get rid of, of course, but I'm not aware of it when I'm at it and I just "let myself go". I'll probably think of a track's theme, pick a matching scale and force myself to it. It's true that I have a predilection for the sadder/melancholic scales, and in fact it's the dorian scale that most attracts me because of those elements and sensations you name: that cold hope obtained with great regret or seen as something too far away, typical of "dreams and hopes" rather than something real, but there it is waiting for me to look at it. Don't worry about being offensive in any way with your opinion, rather I appreciate this new (and necessary) perspective and the time everyone wants to dedicate to this post. I agree with your point of view. For me this is a "handcrafted" genre that has to be worked with care and attention to detail, and each album is usually a little gem as opposed to something done as a chain production and I particularly try to do it that way to respect it and be as accurate as I can, for what I still have to go through. I'll try other scales with that same track, and also other fundamental or root notes although I don't know very well which ones tend to work better with each scale, but that's something to experiment with and, as you say, subjective. Something I also want to learn is how to interleave modal scales effectively to take advantage of things like that seriousness of the doric that you mention but not let it decay into something flat, but first I have quite a few basics to learn to handle fluently. Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by deragule on Aug 14, 2022 13:39:41 GMT -5
|
|
engraven
Fighter
No heroes. No lords.
Posts: 119
|
Post by engraven on Aug 15, 2022 1:24:53 GMT -5
I think what's really missing is a solid low end in the eq of your mixes. Everything seems to be up in the high-mid and higher frequencies, and so there is just a lack of weight, or what you may have been referring to as force. Compress and then use additive EQ to boost the low end of certain instruments (or on the master as well if you still need more), especially like the percussion and the deeper brass and the strings playing the chords. Let the bell sounds dominate the high end, and that will make them more impactful as well. Everything gets kinda washed out when it's all in the higher frequencies -- there might be an overapplication of reverb on some instruments too which is washing away their low end. With some more oomph and heft in the mix, I think this could very well be the beginning of a solid DS song.
|
|
|
Post by deragule on Aug 18, 2022 5:38:30 GMT -5
Hi there Engraven.
I'll focus on that next. It's true that I want to add a "haze" in the ambience to reflect a dirty space covered with that kind of heavy and humid hot atmosphere (I'm still trying to get the trombones to be heard in the background but without losing so much impact and without eating up other instruments. Here is the problem with the reverb as well), but I agree that everything seems to be an amalgam where I don't leave much room for the individuality of each instrument or synthesizer, with no one being the protagonist.
Thanks again mate. I'll try to come back with something better.
|
|