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Post by thekeeper on Feb 10, 2017 11:36:30 GMT -5
Idyllic/Cottage/Comfy Synth
I feel that these feelings within modern DS should be discussed: the lighter side of DS. A great deal, maybe the majority of DS, is fairly black metal influenced and flirtatious with the blanket term of 'dark ambient'. Comfier sounding synth has much less of this darkness, and consequently lies further away from BM. This really struck me while listening to the Chronicles of Jest tape (I neglected listening when the demo and full length on BC when they came out, but the tape is fantastic, really enjoying it). It's very light and whimsical (the first track being called 'Whimsy'), and 'comfy' instantly came to me as a descriptor. That firelit cottage at the edge of the woods feel. Smoke coming from the chimney, tending to the sheep or something. This is probably one of my favorite feelings in DS. Til Det Bergens Sygenne flirted with this a lot with his Renhet tapes, though they're still pretty dark and odd sounding. Darkstroll really nailed the majestic yet bouncy forest sound. Ashmadai is a rare old tape I acquired, lots of tape noise but the minimalist compositions are quite pleasing. There are lots more, but these are the ones that come to mind at the moment. I'd say there are more recent DS works on the lighthearted side than older past works, which I think illustrates more of a shift away of DS being categorized as a sub-sub-genre of black metal. I think the vast majority of DS fans, including DS composers of the lighter sound, are still black metal fans; rarely do we find DS fans who aren't into black metal, but how removed from black metal do you think has DS become? I know there are some strong opinions on what DS and BM are supposed to be what they're supposed to embody, but does anyone see DS moving further from BM spiritualism? I definitely do, and I think it's pretty kool since a lot of these compositions are really good. I think moving further from BM tradition allows some more innovation in DS, throwing in different sounds, different concepts, different imagery, different feelings. I love both the dark and light stuff, and BM itself of course. I don't know if I can say which I'm generally more a fan of, personally.
So, what do you think? Do you like the darker or lighter stuff more? Does DS have to stay the weird child of BM, can it be removed from BM context, and is this positive, negative, or neutral? Or, just post comfy DS here.
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Post by andrewwerdna on Feb 11, 2017 7:55:44 GMT -5
Honestly I don't like the light stuff very much, especially when it sounds like hokey Renaissance Fair, Hobbit party music. There are exceptions though. Darkstroll is great, and also would be my go-to example of "jolly" ds. I guess people used to refer to Fata Morgana as Mortiis' "jolly" side-project, but I never heard it as being particularly lighthearted. If anything Crypt of the Wizard was far more lighthearted. The self-titled Fata Morgana album would've fit in perfectly well as a Mortiis album. But likewise I don't think the main Mortiis project was particularly dark. If you exclude the album art and song titles, even Vond doesn't seem very dark.
Anyways, I like it dark, but I don't think that it ever was the same kind of darkness as that of black metal. I mean, objectively I think you can probably show that ds generally has less minor scales and dissonance than bm.
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Tyrannus
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Post by Tyrannus on Feb 11, 2017 12:23:20 GMT -5
I do enjoy a lot of lighter stuff and I think that realm of DS especially is moving away from BM. But I still very much love dark and grim DS of a more BM tradition, and that's the atmosphere I try to capture when I make DS myself.I think there's room for both in the scene and in my heart. I'm very intrigued by the notion of people liking DS without liking BM though
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Post by kaptaincarbon on Feb 11, 2017 13:58:18 GMT -5
I enjoy all aspects of DS but did find the FB group discussions interesting when people were saying it SHOULD be like this. Chaucerian Myth, Sequestered Keep, Chronciles ofJest have all been on the lighter side. This isn't tavern music but I think people forget about how idyllic some of the music they enjoy really is. Plus gathering stuff for the Compilation I will say that the majority of it is light. I think the dark classic sounding DS is more of an anomaly currently than people realize.
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Post by Tyrannus on Feb 11, 2017 14:12:34 GMT -5
This is really fascinating to me. I will never understand this rejection of darkness and rawness that's so prevalent...the style was founded on that!
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Post by thekeeper on Feb 11, 2017 15:07:32 GMT -5
I enjoy all aspects of DS but did find the FB group discussions interesting when people were saying it SHOULD be like this. Chaucerian Myth, Sequestered Keep, Chronciles ofJest have all been on the lighter side. This isn't tavern music but I think people forget about how idyllic some of the music they enjoy really is. Plus gathering stuff for the Compilation I will say that the majority of it is light. I think the dark classic sounding DS is more of an anomaly currently than people realize. There's a lot of DS in the middle ground between light and dark, but Chronicles of Jest and Fief sounding stuff I feel like are the minority in DS sound (and Fief is pretty popular currently, deservedly). I wouldn't count more triumphant stuff like SK among the lighter projects; though he does have some light tracks, it's still pretty deep in the dungeon and really Summoning sounding, doesn't really remind me of hillside life. But I'd agree that there's not a whole lot of purely dark minor key dark ambient evil stuff. Perhaps I'm being too loose with my idea of 'dark'.
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Post by nebulosa on Feb 12, 2017 1:08:57 GMT -5
I feel that dungeon synth in general is a very "comfy" style of music, whether it is played in a more lighthearted fashion or in a grim and frostbitten way. Both of these tend to convey some kind of pining for a different time in a different world, which I find quite comfy.
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Post by jondexter on Feb 12, 2017 1:10:01 GMT -5
i pretty much like everything as long as it has feeling and especially mystique to it, although the 'darker' stuff is probably my favorite. I would call bands like Alhazred, Witch King of Angmar and Sanguine Vescor 'dark' and on the other hand bands like Foglord, RaevJager and Fief 'light', do you guys agree thus far? If so anyone know some more 'dark' bands worth checking out? In regards to black metal i used to listen to it a lot more -all i listened to was metal really-but these days i am pretty much just absorbed with ds simply because this is my love/obsession and there are more than enough bands to keep me absorbed -in fact i cannot keep up- so i'm personally not really too concerned for black metal anymore, although i still listen to bits and pieces, but i usually go back to the classic stuff for exp i got the Abigor lp box set not long back (94-98) this is the best i must say!
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Post by Tyrannus on Feb 12, 2017 12:19:47 GMT -5
I enjoy all aspects of DS but did find the FB group discussions interesting when people were saying it SHOULD be like this. Chaucerian Myth, Sequestered Keep, Chronciles ofJest have all been on the lighter side. This isn't tavern music but I think people forget about how idyllic some of the music they enjoy really is. Plus gathering stuff for the Compilation I will say that the majority of it is light. I think the dark classic sounding DS is more of an anomaly currently than people realize. There's actually a post in the FB group now about "The Return" by Celebdil and people are saying it's too noisy. This blows my mind! I think this album is pretty great and it's a bummer that it might get overlooked because people demand a certain sheen and polish
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Post by thekeeper on Feb 12, 2017 13:14:44 GMT -5
I enjoy all aspects of DS but did find the FB group discussions interesting when people were saying it SHOULD be like this. Chaucerian Myth, Sequestered Keep, Chronciles ofJest have all been on the lighter side. This isn't tavern music but I think people forget about how idyllic some of the music they enjoy really is. Plus gathering stuff for the Compilation I will say that the majority of it is light. I think the dark classic sounding DS is more of an anomaly currently than people realize. There's actually a post in the FB group now about "The Return" by Celebdil and people are saying it's too noisy. This blows my mind! I think this album is pretty great and it's a bummer that it might get overlooked because people demand a certain sheen and polish I saw that. I don't really think it's all that noisy, just synths are distorted at times. Your stuff would be HNW to them if this is too noisy. I don't think noise negates any idyllic feel, though. Check out the Ashmadai tape I linked. The background hiss is really apparent but the tape is pretty pleasant.
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Post by Ananoriel on Feb 12, 2017 13:33:50 GMT -5
I always found a lot of dungeon synth very comfy instead being very dark. A majority of modern DS artists make quite lighter songs. I think Fief makes a good example for it, his songs are pretty light. And yeah Raevjager, Foglord, Chaucerian Myth, Nan Morlith, and there are a few more that sound very 'light'.
I like both sides, the more ambient/darker side is very interesting and good as well. It just depends on my mood of what I like to listen.
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Post by Tyrannus on Feb 12, 2017 14:30:41 GMT -5
There's actually a post in the FB group now about "The Return" by Celebdil and people are saying it's too noisy. This blows my mind! I think this album is pretty great and it's a bummer that it might get overlooked because people demand a certain sheen and polish I saw that. I don't really think it's all that noisy, just synths are distorted at times. Your stuff would be HNW to them if this is too noisy. I don't think noise negates any idyllic feel, though. Check out the Ashmadai tape I linked. The background hiss is really apparent but the tape is pretty pleasant. I didn't find celebdil too noisy either but I guess that's their perspective. I actually have that ashmadai release downloaded already and enjoy it a lot. Anyway what does everyone think goes into making an idyllic sound? Is it a matter of composition style? Synth tone?
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Post by thekeeper on Feb 12, 2017 21:37:57 GMT -5
Tyrannus , I think 'idyllic' implies an absence of the battle-ready sound of many DS artists like Murgrind, Sequestered Keep, and the like. Something more humble and subtle, perhaps. Maybe it's hard to pinpoint, but I think you know it when you hear it. When I first put the Chronicles of Jest tape on, instant comfiness (bright cover art with a whimsical non-medieval font, too). First listening to Ashmadai put me into breezy verdant medieval pasture. Visions of Niften gives me a 'night time alone in a woodland cottage' feel, which the cover of the new tape pinpointed that feeling. I'm really excited for his new demo to get here. These three projects use different sounds, but there's a general lack of battle horns and timpani and all that; 'idyllic' implies a lack of the bombastic.
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Post by thekeeper on Feb 12, 2017 21:47:34 GMT -5
The Old Tower/Sacred Dominions split is pretty pleasant as well. I really love the dog barking and crackling fire at the start. Melancholic at times, but it invokes images of peasant life or maybe a monastery.
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Post by nahadoth on Feb 13, 2017 0:12:00 GMT -5
Tyrannus , I think 'idyllic' implies an absence of the battle-ready sound of many DS artists like Murgrind, Sequestered Keep, and the like. Something more humble and subtle, perhaps. Maybe it's hard to pinpoint, but I think you know it when you hear it. When I first put the Chronicles of Jest tape on, instant comfiness (bright cover art with a whimsical non-medieval font, too). First listening to Ashmadai put me into breezy verdant medieval pasture. Visions of Niften gives me a 'night time alone in a woodland cottage' feel, which the cover of the new tape pinpointed that feeling. I'm really excited for his new demo to get here. These three projects use different sounds, but there's a general lack of battle horns and timpani and all that; 'idyllic' implies a lack of the bombastic. I think you can help draw the distinction by the instruments used: idyllic: harps, acoustic guitars, recorders, tambourine, solo violin sounds battle-ready: horns, low winds, bass drums, ensemble string patches I also can get a connotation of the ethereal from the idyllic sound from time to time - I think Foglord blends that line pretty well. (But there's definitely something different between the more spacey releases and ones that feel more grounded.) Sometimes you'll hear stuff in Major keys (shocking!), and I think of them as being connected to the kind of aesthetic of JRPG town or inn themes - something indicating stasis rather than movement, for example. jondexter, I agree with some of your choices, especially Fief as something lighter. I think I often am intrigued by bleak, darker stuff as a listener. Some of that is sneaking into what I do with Nahadoth, especially while recording Solstice and on some yet-unreleased material, but my instinct is usually towards mellower, melodic stuff, at least in the early stages of composition.
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