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Post by dedran on Apr 11, 2017 21:50:52 GMT -5
Hello there. Good to see that this forum gets a decent amount of traffic and generates some discussion. I found the subreddit, but it's mostly links to music without much description. One of the things that I loved about discovering the dungeon synth blogs was how in-depth some of the owners would be when delving into the origins of this music, its influences, etc. I tend to nerd out a little too much when it comes to discussing music, so hopefully this isn't too specific of a question, but I'm just so fascinated by this music that I figured it was worth asking. I've noticed over the years that a lot of dungeon synth artists, as well as artists who make related kinds of music, will occasionally throw in a very distinctive, low, spoken voice that really adds to the atmosphere. Obviously, this music is predominantly instrumental, but whenever I hear this voice, it always has me wondering where it comes from. It's so strikingly specific that it has to have a single origin somewhere, and it sounds so familiar, leading me to wonder if it comes from films or other media that I might have absorbed when very young that I just can't remember anymore. So, dungeon synth experts, let's see if you can help me to pinpoint what exactly this is, because I'd love to figure out exactly why I'm so enamored with it. Anyway, there isn't much point in trying to further describe what I mean. Here are some example tracks that feature it: Dolch - Forest Murmur www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCrlxIsrW30Probably one of my favorite examples: Splendorius - The Moon is Invisible Under the Fog www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjtpZ7hwqn8One of my first encounters with this: Mortiis - Stjernefødt www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sNFq6ctWusOutside of pure dungeon synth, it seems to be pretty scattered across most of Summoning's discography, but the vocals at the end of this track are definitely related: The Glory Disappears www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuPYehVDiDwProbably my favorite example ever is from the black metal band Emyn Muil, during the second half of the track Arise in Gondolin: www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8CSK1cqFOYSo, does anyone know what this is, exactly? It doesn't seem to be a specific form of ancient chant from some long-lost age, really -- at least, not one that I'm aware of. If there are video games or old fantasy films that feature it, I am ignorant of them, or have forgotten about them. It doesn't really sound medieval, and I don't think the dominant Christian culture of the period would have condoned it. It definitely seems to be a product of modern media -- movies or radio plays or something, I'm guessing -- but I just don't know what. The other possibility is that one of these artists simply invented it, and everyone else copied. I'm sure the main response to this thread is going to be something along the lines of, "It just sounds cool, so it gets used," and that's fine. I was just curious if someone with a little more knowledge about this genre, who also enjoys going a little overboard with analyzing it, would actually be able to shed some light on this. Additionally, if you are aware of other examples not listed in this thread, please recommend them or link to them! I would love to hear them.
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Post by thekeeper on Apr 12, 2017 9:37:53 GMT -5
dedran, posts like these are why I wanted there to be a forum in the first place, to have more in-depth discussions that don't seem to take place elsewhere. Welcome to the forum! This facet of DS is an interesting one. There is surprisingly little modern DS that features a voice component, reasoning for this could simply be that now since DAWs are so accessible, one doesn't necessarily need a microphone to create music. One newer artist that comes to mind who uses a low voice component is Forgotten Kingdoms, with a well-done traditionally dark and warped set of effects on the voice: Forgotten Kingdoms definitely emulates the 90s home-cassette feel, so I believe his inspiration could be more easily linked to already existing examples of this kind of voice present in some DS. As for a true origin, I'm not sure there is one and it might be hard to trace to begin with since I don't believe there is a sole inspiration source for this component. I feel this vocal feature could be in line with the narrative voice-overs from movies, like the intro narration to a campy fantasy movie. Definitely could be an inspiration for some. Or more applicably, like how black metal (more often than not) attempts a very inhuman sounding style of screaming, I'd say the low voice feature in some DS is in the same fantastical alternative spirit. It maintains that cryptic other-worldliness that some might feel a normal voice wouldn't be able to accomplish. However, artists like Sagenhaft are quite narrative without many vocal effects at all and it works well with the music. Cernunnos Woods is another example. Bard's voice isn't low-pitched or highly-altered in his recordings, but it's a key element to his music that cements it as his own. I listen to a great deal of DS without the voice element, but the vocal aspect usually does make something more memorable (Cernunno's Woods, Sagenhaft, and Forgotten Kingdoms happen to be three of my favorite DS artists).
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olofdigre
Knight
digre.bandcamp.com
Posts: 376
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Post by olofdigre on Apr 12, 2017 13:09:40 GMT -5
I noticed this first with "ånden som gjorde upprör" by mortiis. We did listen to that record daily at my school back then. 1996 i think or 97. I can not remember. It said something about the voices.
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Post by dedran on Apr 12, 2017 14:18:56 GMT -5
dedran , posts like these are why I wanted there to be a forum in the first place, to have more in-depth discussions that don't seem to take place elsewhere. Welcome to the forum! Thanks, glad to hear it. Definitely a good idea to have a forum like this, I think. It does vaguely remind me of some kind of bog monster/forest guardian from some movie, like a giant talking tree, or something out of a movie like Neverending Story. Except that it seems to be more like a bard as well, recalling ancient events through oral poetry or maybe casting some esoteric spell. Exactly. It relates back to ancient myth and the desire to bring legendary creatures back into everyday life. I was actually going to mention Cernunnos Woods. It's not the same thing, but the spoken word component definitely accomplishes a similar goal, there. Really good stuff, too. I should also note that these vocals always remind me of some of the creatures featured in John Bauer's artwork -- maybe the trolls, but especially the giants/giant trolls. I know that Mortiis also used some of his artwork, so it's kind of what I imagine in my mind when I hear this stuff: s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/21/34/97/213497f2bad69035ef296382b3691168.jpg1.bp.blogspot.com/--q2Hube1Vqc/TvrttjCiNmI/AAAAAAAACa4/30mhK5Y2XQA/s1600/Troll_Theodor_Kittelsen_-_Skogtroll%252C_1906_%2528Forest_Troll%2529.jpgwww.steveartgallery.se/upload1/file-admin/images/new17/John%20Bauer-723654.jpgEven better if there is a heroic component. A human with qualities that transcend the average man comes through a secluded area on a quest to end some tyrannical reign, and makes a pitstop to get advice from such a creature, who gives a bit of a "Now, go forth!" salutation as the hero exits the creature's permanent dwelling off the beaten path.
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Alder
Magic User
Murky dungeon sounds: alderen.bandcamp.com
Posts: 228
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Post by Alder on Apr 12, 2017 16:03:07 GMT -5
I hear the familiarity to these voices, too. Most sound to me like they're just down-pitched, maybe with some reverb or other simple effect. Lots of villains, beasts, etc. in older movies (pre-CGI explosion) also had simple voice effects like this to promote their other-worldliness. Quick examples: Jabba the Hutt, www.youtube.com/watch?v=sanNIcQPPiERock Guy from Neverending story, www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj-OpTHixpUThe Humungus, www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2gVXd7FzhQDeep, gravelly, foreign, and creepy. Anyway, my guess is this familiarity arises from these being the dark and sinister voices of our upbringing (modern fairytales).
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Post by dedran on Apr 12, 2017 20:38:25 GMT -5
I hear the familiarity to these voices, too. Most sound to me like they're just down-pitched, maybe with some reverb or other simple effect. Lots of villains, beasts, etc. in older movies (pre-CGI explosion) also had simple voice effects like this to promote their other-worldliness. Quick examples: Jabba the Hutt, www.youtube.com/watch?v=sanNIcQPPiERock Guy from Neverending story, www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj-OpTHixpUThe Humungus, www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2gVXd7FzhQDeep, gravelly, foreign, and creepy. Anyway, my guess is this familiarity arises from these being the dark and sinister voices of our upbringing (modern fairytales). Yep, Rock Guy is probably what I had in mind. Weird that the same thing comes to mind for different people.
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Alder
Magic User
Murky dungeon sounds: alderen.bandcamp.com
Posts: 228
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Post by Alder on Apr 13, 2017 1:34:39 GMT -5
I hear the familiarity to these voices, too. Most sound to me like they're just down-pitched, maybe with some reverb or other simple effect. Lots of villains, beasts, etc. in older movies (pre-CGI explosion) also had simple voice effects like this to promote their other-worldliness. Quick examples: Jabba the Hutt, www.youtube.com/watch?v=sanNIcQPPiERock Guy from Neverending story, www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj-OpTHixpUThe Humungus, www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2gVXd7FzhQDeep, gravelly, foreign, and creepy. Anyway, my guess is this familiarity arises from these being the dark and sinister voices of our upbringing (modern fairytales). Yep, Rock Guy is probably what I had in mind. Weird that the same thing comes to mind for different people. There was a lot of Mood from that movie imprinted on me at a young age - the misty swamp, that embodiment-of-darkness-wolf, a giant made of rocks.
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Post by dedran on Apr 13, 2017 20:58:06 GMT -5
Yep, Rock Guy is probably what I had in mind. Weird that the same thing comes to mind for different people. There was a lot of Mood from that movie imprinted on me at a young age - the misty swamp, that embodiment-of-darkness-wolf, a giant made of rocks. Same here. I forgot most of the plot until I checked it out recently on YouTube, and the misty swamp really stands out. It reminds me of the bogs and swamps of northern Europe from the times of bog body burials in places like Denmark and the like. Our ancestors thought of places like that as sacred, so I sometimes wonder to what degree this is a genetic thing. It's a weird, loose connection, but I can't help but be taken there by this kind of music.
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Post by shadowcloak on Apr 13, 2017 22:39:19 GMT -5
This is in reference to my own project, but I did this exact thing on a couple of Oldenhelm songs (posted below). I can tell you that my inspiration came solely from Mortiis, but from what I can tell he simply pitch shifts the vocals (I added a few other effects such as delay and reverb). I've been experimenting with using minor vocals in DS, and to be honest I'm rather surprised that no one has mentioned the vocals to me thus far, since they are not a common element in DS. I'm glad this topic is coming to light since I think it's something more projects should be utilizing. oldenhelm.bandcamp.com/track/a-crown-of-dragon-clawsoldenhelm.bandcamp.com/track/lost-dominions-a-stronghold-in-the-sylvan-dark
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Post by nahadoth on Apr 13, 2017 23:25:22 GMT -5
I'll dig around on my external hard drive, but I think there are some recitations of Norwegian poetry that I've heard that have a similar quality to the vox you hear in first wave DS. No guarantee that that was a direct inspiration, but I suspect with the genre being invested in the days of olde in general, that the recitations of folk poetry might have had something to do with it.
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Alder
Magic User
Murky dungeon sounds: alderen.bandcamp.com
Posts: 228
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Post by Alder on Apr 14, 2017 16:16:19 GMT -5
This is in reference to my own project, but I did this exact thing on a couple of Oldenhelm songs (posted below). I can tell you that my inspiration came solely from Mortiis, but from what I can tell he simply pitch shifts the vocals (I added a few other effects such as delay and reverb). I've been experimenting with using minor vocals in DS, and to be honest I'm rather surprised that no one has mentioned the vocals to me thus far, since they are not a common element in DS. I'm glad this topic is coming to light since I think it's something more projects should be utilizing. oldenhelm.bandcamp.com/track/a-crown-of-dragon-clawsoldenhelm.bandcamp.com/track/lost-dominions-a-stronghold-in-the-sylvan-darkMy guess as to why people don't bring it up is that the vocals in such ambient, textural music usually take a bit of a backseat as "just another instrument," as opposed to many genres where the voice is hailed as the main-point. Maybe consider no one talking about your vocals a positive thing - they're not so overwhelming or out-of-place to unbalance your sound (which, after a listen, seems right to me).
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Alder
Magic User
Murky dungeon sounds: alderen.bandcamp.com
Posts: 228
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Post by Alder on Apr 14, 2017 16:19:42 GMT -5
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Post by dedran on Apr 15, 2017 10:29:48 GMT -5
That was incredible. This definitely counts. Kind of sounds like Ildjarn's ambient stuff, or Vindkaldr, a little. Love the artwork, too.
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