Tyrannus
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Knowledge is Night
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Post by Tyrannus on Jun 20, 2017 16:21:55 GMT -5
That perspective makes sense. I guess some folks might not really have a good idea of what makes for good noise. I am interested to see if that prediction comes true, and dungeon noise will become a hot new trend for lazy folks. That would be unfortunate but we'll see! Well let us hope that I am wrong about this. Also... even if we are flooded by no effort dungeon noise we will still be able to find great stuff. So let us not worry about that.Β That's an excellent point. The existence of things you dislike shouldn't detract from your enjoyment of what you do like.
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Post by Ananoriel on Jun 20, 2017 16:49:18 GMT -5
I think that experimentation is good in music, from that may come new cool things. I can see why people like dungeon noise, and sometimes I can enjoy it too. Just like minimal synth can be very good, while people may (dunno if they do) call it lazy as well. As long the artist puts some passion and effort in it I am fine with it, if I like it or not. Since it is a matter of taste. The same goes for starting artists and fans, if they just started exploring the genres, I am willing to 'help' them, instead of bashing them. I mean everyone has to start at some point. And sometimes their demo isn't the best thing ever, but if they put love and passion in it, have real interest in the scene and the background, it is all right. But I quite start to dislike the amount of fast-made, same sounding dungeon synth that is made just because it is cool nowadays. Just as it happened to witch house for example. As olofdigre mentions: you can pick them easily out by checking album art for example, so it is not a big deal for me. And later on those people lose interest again because it is not cool anymore, so the passionate people stay. And if I don't like it, I don't comment and just move on. Perhaps some constructive criticism/tips if someone asks for it. The one that can be a bit of annoying for me is that when I am scrolling on the FB group looking for cool stuff, and see irrelevant things again. Or game soundtracks that don't have anything in the DS feels at all, but just because they are retro and with midi sounds. Of course it happens at other music groups as well, like people posting their own project every day (it is even more annoying imo). Or every 5 posts you see the same Youtube video from the Atmospheric Black Metal Albums again because it released that week. So when it comes to that the DS group has more diversity. And I feel a bit sorry that a small 'scene' has been split in different groups. I hope it will fade over soon, in the meantime I just float between the two groups and try to stay neutral and enjoy the music and the kind people.
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Tyrannus
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Knowledge is Night
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Post by Tyrannus on Jun 20, 2017 17:25:48 GMT -5
Yeah I'm sure many of you noticed today's Facebook drama...any thoughts?
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Post by thekeeper on Jun 20, 2017 17:49:27 GMT -5
But I quite start to dislike the amount of fast-made, same sounding dungeon synth that is made just because it is cool nowadays. Just as it happened to witch house for example. As olofdigre mentions: you can pick them easily out by checking album art for example, so it is not a big deal for me. And later on those people lose interest again because it is not cool anymore, so the passionate people stay. And if I don't like it, I don't comment and just move on. Perhaps some constructive criticism/tips if someone asks for it. The "term don't judge a book by it's cover" sounds fair in concept, but with DS the covers do seem to tell me what it'll sound like. I should say this is usually the case. There are some exceptions, like Faery Ring's Leech and Wort cover might indicate it'd be somewhat lo-fi and murky, but in reality it's much more expansive and orchestral yet dusty. Tyrannus, that pinned post seemed to come out of nowhere to me. Things seemed fairly mellow recently, but maybe I missed something that happened today and was since removed.
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Post by andrewwerdna on Jun 20, 2017 18:26:28 GMT -5
I don't really think Grimrik criticizes people for experimentation per se, at least from what I've seen in the FB group. He's more concerned with people actually putting in decent effort and not jumping into DS with quick sloppy demos, more concerned with people seeing DS as a serious and legitimate genre. I used to have my beef with Grimrik in the past (though I don't think I spoke up about it much), but honestly since this "True DS" thing my respect for him has grown immensely. I think he's always been rather clear and consistent about his position, and while I was in the group he seemed like the most level-headed of the bunch, comfortable with disagreement and easy to have a critical discussion with. I actually considered sending him a pm on facebook to invite him to the board to participate in this thread. If you happen to be reading this Grimrik, I personally would welcome you to join the board.
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Post by ranseur on Jun 20, 2017 23:57:45 GMT -5
I don't really think Grimrik criticizes people for experimentation per se, at least from what I've seen in the FB group. He's more concerned with people actually putting in decent effort and not jumping into DS with quick sloppy demos, more concerned with people seeing DS as a serious and legitimate genre. I used to have my beef with Grimrik in the past (though I don't think I spoke up about it much), but honestly since this "True DS" thing my respect for him has grown immensely. I think he's always been rather clear and consistent about his position, and while I was in the group he seemed like the most level-headed of the bunch, comfortable with disagreement and easy to have a critical discussion with. I actually considered sending him a pm on facebook to invite him to the board to participate in this thread. If you happen to be reading this Grimrik, I personally would welcome you to join the board. I agree, and for the record the only reason I mentioned him by name was because he was running the facebook page for a while and was putting his opinions out there in a very public way. And some of his advice generally I did listen to, like spending more time on albums and mixing better.
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Tyrannus
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Post by Tyrannus on Jun 21, 2017 0:02:19 GMT -5
I used to have my beef with Grimrik in the past (though I don't think I spoke up about it much), but honestly since this "True DS" thing my respect for him has grown immensely. I think he's always been rather clear and consistent about his position, and while I was in the group he seemed like the most level-headed of the bunch, comfortable with disagreement and easy to have a critical discussion with. I actually considered sending him a pm on facebook to invite him to the board to participate in this thread. If you happen to be reading this Grimrik, I personally would welcome you to join the board. I agree, and for the record the only reason I mentioned him by name was because he was running the facebook page for a while and was putting his opinions out there in a very public way. And some of his advice generally I did listen to, like spending more time on albums and mixing better. I'll admit it's entirely possible that I don't have the full story here so I don't pretend to really understand the guy or anything. I would definitely like to hear his perspective on the matter
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Post by nahadoth on Jun 21, 2017 9:13:12 GMT -5
I agree, and for the record the only reason I mentioned him by name was because he was running the facebook page for a while and was putting his opinions out there in a very public way. And some of his advice generally I did listen to, like spending more time on albums and mixing better. I'll admit it's entirely possible that I don't have the full story here so I don't pretend to really understand the guy or anything. I would definitely like to hear his perspective on the matter yeah I don't really have any beef with him, just that he seems to really care about his elder status in this community, and that manifests in ways I get weary of from time to time. But I think the dude also does have a lot of audio knowledge and I've definitely learned from some of his posts about recording and mixing.
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Alder
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Murky dungeon sounds: alderen.bandcamp.com
Posts: 228
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Post by Alder on Jun 21, 2017 11:41:29 GMT -5
So, this might be crossing the line a bit in the "calling-people-out" category, but I was wondering if people wouldn't mind sharing some of what they think is low-quality/trend-hopping/minimal-effort DS? I'll admit I probably get most of my DS recommends from this board or sifting through the feed of people I trust taste-wise on BC, and while I've definitely listened to some stuff that I dismiss as "not my style" (e.g., the uber-polished soundtrack stuff, as mentioned above by others), well, following this thread is making me really curious about this supposed trash-wall flooding into the genre.
I'm also simply curious if this is an acceptable thing to ask of this board. If not, or you don't want to be publicly mean, maybe DM me?
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Post by andrewwerdna on Jun 21, 2017 13:45:29 GMT -5
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Post by setfiretostrawmen on Jun 21, 2017 14:06:29 GMT -5
I've seen the second one. Although he warns you outright that "THIS ISN'T A SERIOUS THING" in the bio, it's still a little irritating to see that sort of thing lumped together with quality and or serious effort. Hipsters ruin everything.
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Post by thekeeper on Jun 21, 2017 14:26:06 GMT -5
So, this might be crossing the line a bit in the "calling-people-out" category, but I was wondering if people wouldn't mind sharing some of what they think is low-quality/trend-hopping/minimal-effort DS? I'll admit I probably get most of my DS recommends from this board or sifting through the feed of people I trust taste-wise on BC, and while I've definitely listened to some stuff that I dismiss as "not my style" (e.g., the uber-polished soundtrack stuff, as mentioned above by others), well, following this thread is making me really curious about this supposed trash-wall flooding into the genre. I'm also simply curious if this is an acceptable thing to ask of this board. If not, or you don't want to be publicly mean, maybe DM me? As I said before, I don't think there's necessarily a 'flooding', I think the ratio is roughly the same as it's always been. I think some people are just mad that their work is digitally put next to things they think suck, the fact that BC is pretty much a level playing field in the 'recent arrival' tab. Things I thought that could have been much more developed before publishing: vaelastrasz.bandcamp.com/ (not everything here is DS, but the DS kind of stuff seems like just messing around. Could be way better) parishadrecords.bandcamp.com/album/angstloch (this is just missing something imo, doesn't seem finished) oculltusobscurium.bandcamp.com/album/behold (under-developed, over-used artwork) litaf.bandcamp.com/album/emanations-from-the-reliquary (way too quiet, I like concept of 'gnostic DS', but this is really boring and could have been more interesting considering the theme) chamberofstillness.bandcamp.com/album/forgotten (way over-priced, listened more for fairness sake and it could develop into something more fleshed out and atmospheric with more effort) Not DS: thewesternlands.bandcamp.com/album/demo (just dark ambient imo, not too interesting) There's probably a lot more in the tag that isn't actually DS. I don't feel like they tried: joshuafeetham.bandcamp.com/album/species (more of a soundcloud kind of-DS experiment)
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Tyrannus
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Knowledge is Night
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Post by Tyrannus on Jun 21, 2017 14:38:52 GMT -5
So, this might be crossing the line a bit in the "calling-people-out" category, but I was wondering if people wouldn't mind sharing some of what they think is low-quality/trend-hopping/minimal-effort DS? I'll admit I probably get most of my DS recommends from this board or sifting through the feed of people I trust taste-wise on BC, and while I've definitely listened to some stuff that I dismiss as "not my style" (e.g., the uber-polished soundtrack stuff, as mentioned above by others), well, following this thread is making me really curious about this supposed trash-wall flooding into the genre. I'm also simply curious if this is an acceptable thing to ask of this board. If not, or you don't want to be publicly mean, maybe DM me? As I said before, I don't think there's necessarily a 'flooding', I think the ratio is roughly the same as it's always been. I think some people are just mad that their work is digitally put next to things they think suck, the fact that BC is pretty much a level playing field in the 'recent arrival' tab. Things I thought that could have been much more developed before publishing: vaelastrasz.bandcamp.com/ (not everything here is DS, but the DS kind of stuff seems like just messing around. Could be way better) parishadrecords.bandcamp.com/album/angstloch (this is just missing something imo, doesn't seem finished) oculltusobscurium.bandcamp.com/album/behold (under-developed, over-used artwork) litaf.bandcamp.com/album/emanations-from-the-reliquary (way too quiet, I like concept of 'gnostic DS', but this is really boring and could have been more interesting considering the theme) chamberofstillness.bandcamp.com/album/forgotten (way over-priced, listened more for fairness sake and it could develop into something more fleshed out and atmospheric with more effort) Not DS: thewesternlands.bandcamp.com/album/demo (just dark ambient imo, not too interesting) There's probably a lot more in the tag that isn't actually DS. I don't feel like they tried: joshuafeetham.bandcamp.com/album/species (more of a soundcloud kind of-DS experiment) I think we all can agree that none of these artists actually threaten the integrity of the genre. While they may not be our favorite, their existence doesn't diminish how good our favorite DS albums are. I've bumped into a lot of these but they really just leave my mind pretty quickly
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Post by thekeeper on Jun 21, 2017 15:01:14 GMT -5
Tyrannus, oh definitely. I'm not worried whatsoever about the status of the genre due to whatever supposed low quality influx people see occurring, because the ratio has always looked the same to me. The only real changes have been more thought towards and stretching of what DS 'means' leading to some branching experimentation, of which the vast majority has been excellent, and more tradition-cycling, which I'm less interested in but many others like (totally fine with me, everyone can do their own thing).
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Tyrannus
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Knowledge is Night
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Post by Tyrannus on Jun 21, 2017 16:02:40 GMT -5
Tyrannus, oh definitely. I'm not worried whatsoever about the status of the genre due to whatever supposed low quality influx people see occurring, because the ratio has always looked the same to me. The only real changes have been more thought towards and stretching of what DS 'means' leading to some branching experimentation, of which the vast majority has been excellent, and more tradition-cycling, which I'm less interested in but many others like (totally fine with me, everyone can do their own thing). would it be right to say that DS is just carrying on, business as usual? Is there any kind of trend going on really? The more I think about it the more this apparent conflict all just seems so...normal
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