Tyrannus
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Knowledge is Night
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Post by Tyrannus on Jul 19, 2017 10:20:43 GMT -5
Well I gave this a sort of esoteric-sounding title, but the concept I had was pretty basic. I was just wondering if you found that your perception of a dungeon synth act changes based on what you know about them as a person?
This idea came to me in perusing the Facebook group, when it occurred to me that I've got a nice little handful of acquaintances who I like as people who I know really only through that group. I then thought how this sort of made me more inclined to listen to and support their music and sort of cheer for them along the way.
Other instances in that group have given me similar thoughts but in perhaps a more negative manner. For instance talking about Lamentation or Burzum often raises political questions which I personally tire of but which still make me wonder about how knowing information about the artist affects your perception of the project.
Another sort of negative occurrence is when someone appears to be a really hostile or otherwise disagreeable person I find I tend not to listen to them as much. While I'd like to pretend I'm more mature than that, I often just feel like incapable of enjoying the music knowing I don't like them as a person, or that I am disliked by them. It's sort of petty, for sure, but it's as though the music itself just becomes utterly abhorrent to me. I wonder if anyone else ever gets that..? I just figured I'd put it out there.
One final thing is like a community feature where like one well-respected individual will advocate for another, lesser-known project. This often seems to really impact people's opinions, and some fans of the more established artist and/or community figure can find themselves consuming the art of the lesser-known artist. But this can also have the effect of making the more established artist "look bad" if they appear to be vouching for a "bad project". This is all just sort of based on observations in the community that I've had, and I wonder how you all felt about how knowing the people impacts your feelings towards the art. Or how not knowing the person impacts it, like a certain Abandoned Places. It's all just stuff that's been on my mind.
This isn't supposed to be a space for calling anyone out or anything, more so discussing how you feel the community aspect impacts the art and how it's perceived
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olofdigre
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Post by olofdigre on Jul 19, 2017 13:08:52 GMT -5
What you are saying is true. And knowing the person behind the artist can go both ways. There is a rapper called Dose One who raps with a group called themselves and anticon. I heard this track called "it's them" and was amazed by his voice abd style of rapping. I drew this picture in my mind of this almost cartooned wizard person and did rewind time and time again listening to this track. Then when I saw a pictuf of him the image I had drawn of him vanished and when I listened again to the same track it was still good but not magical.
I got Alderens Deep in the mail today and listened to it as I walked around in a nearby forestarea with my baby girl in a stroler (or what you call it. We say children wagon ) and I had a great time. That track is amazing and I can regonize the production with feedback delay and analog synth and tape mixing. I never did dungeon synth when i was a young adult but me and my friend smoked alot of weed and hasch and fooled around foing experimental ambient music with simular production. So when listening to Alderens i felt this nostalgic love for the music as i loved my friends making music 15 or more years ago.
When you can relate to an artist you can relate to the musicand when there is something hindering you from relating, views, ideologi, ways or whatever, well then it is hard to telate to the music even if it is good.
This is very true in my case.
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olofdigre
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Post by olofdigre on Jul 19, 2017 13:13:55 GMT -5
...and if you can relate to the music the relating to the artist gets easier. I did listen to Rush after listening to Resounding Footsteps andrew interview. I never would have done so otherwise.
(I am writing on a burstrd iphone and most of the letters gets wrong. Sorry for that)
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Post by andrewwerdna on Jul 19, 2017 20:02:10 GMT -5
Interesting topic. I'm not sure where I stand exactly, but I have thought a lot about this. I try to not let outside elements affect my listening, but I'd be lying if I say they never did. For instance I think we can all recognize that the violent hype behind second wave black metal made it much more interesting, mysterious, and seemingly dangerous. I doubt I'd have much interest in Mayhem if not for that. But that was when I was younger. And on the other hand the fact that Mortiis "sold out" (in a sense) never really affected my listening of his era 1 stuff, I just listened as if it were a different person making it. But his interviews and other writings from back then most definitely swayed my perception of the music, it revealed a sort of extreme dedication to the vision. If he did interviews saying like, "I just do this for fun, it's silly and nerdy but whatever" it would probably have made the listening experience less powerful. But I feel like interviews and stuff should impact the music, as they're meant to reveal an artist's persona. I'd say that's a bit different than social networking for instance because that's just supposed to be the artist in day-to-day life, not as their artistic persona necessarily.
All that said, if I could go back and do things differently I think I would've kept my project anonymous and disconnected from my writings. That obviously makes promotion a lot less effective, but I don't see that as being a problem. The music should be able to stand on its own, and if nobody listens, popularity should've never been the goal in the first place. I think mysterious and silent artists like Sequestered Keep have the right idea.
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Tyrannus
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Knowledge is Night
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Post by Tyrannus on Jul 19, 2017 20:06:52 GMT -5
Interesting topic. I'm not sure where I stand exactly, but I have thought a lot about this. I try to not let outside elements affect my listening, but I'd be lying if I say they never did. For instance I think we can all recognize that the violent hype behind second wave black metal made it much more interesting, mysterious, and seemingly dangerous. I doubt I'd have much interest in Mayhem if not for that. But that was when I was younger. But on the other hand the fact that Mortiis "sold out" (in a sense) never really affected my listening of his era 1 stuff, I just listened as if it were a different person making it. But his interviews and other writings from back then most definitely swayed my perception of the music, it revealed a sort of extreme dedication to the vision. If he did interviews saying like, "I just do this for fun, it's silly and nerdy but whatever" it would probably have made the listening experience less powerful. But I feel like interviews and stuff should impact the music, as they're meant to reveal an artist's persona. I'd say that's a bit different than social networking for instance because that's just supposed to be the artist in day-to-day life, not as their artistic persona necessarily. All that said, if I could go back and do things differently I think I would've kept my project anonymous and disconnected from my writings. That obviously makes promotion a lot less effective, but I don't see that as being a problem. The music should be able to stand on its own, and if nobody listens, popularity should've never been the goal in the first place. I think mysterious and silent artists like Sequestered Keep have the right idea. Ever considered doing a more anonymous side project or anything like that?
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Post by andrewwerdna on Jul 19, 2017 20:28:34 GMT -5
Interesting topic. I'm not sure where I stand exactly, but I have thought a lot about this. I try to not let outside elements affect my listening, but I'd be lying if I say they never did. For instance I think we can all recognize that the violent hype behind second wave black metal made it much more interesting, mysterious, and seemingly dangerous. I doubt I'd have much interest in Mayhem if not for that. But that was when I was younger. But on the other hand the fact that Mortiis "sold out" (in a sense) never really affected my listening of his era 1 stuff, I just listened as if it were a different person making it. But his interviews and other writings from back then most definitely swayed my perception of the music, it revealed a sort of extreme dedication to the vision. If he did interviews saying like, "I just do this for fun, it's silly and nerdy but whatever" it would probably have made the listening experience less powerful. But I feel like interviews and stuff should impact the music, as they're meant to reveal an artist's persona. I'd say that's a bit different than social networking for instance because that's just supposed to be the artist in day-to-day life, not as their artistic persona necessarily. All that said, if I could go back and do things differently I think I would've kept my project anonymous and disconnected from my writings. That obviously makes promotion a lot less effective, but I don't see that as being a problem. The music should be able to stand on its own, and if nobody listens, popularity should've never been the goal in the first place. I think mysterious and silent artists like Sequestered Keep have the right idea. Ever considered doing a more anonymous side project or anything like that? I'm working on a side-project right now as a matter of fact and am still debating on whether to release it anonymously or not. Now that I've admitted that though I think I kind of have to claim it. I hate the idea of people guessing which project is mine.
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Tyrannus
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Knowledge is Night
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Post by Tyrannus on Jul 19, 2017 20:43:49 GMT -5
Ever considered doing a more anonymous side project or anything like that? I'm working on a side-project right now as a matter of fact and am still debating on whether to release it anonymously or not. Now that I've admitted that though I think I kind of have to claim it. I hate the idea of people guessing which project is mine. Haha I kind of feel like AP would get annoyed by that too. I always imagined that they'd find our speculations to be a pain
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Post by Carl Shoemaker on Jul 19, 2017 22:29:16 GMT -5
I do really like the fact that many DS artists are active on this board, and the FB group. It's definitely something that is NOT present in the many other musical scenes Im involved with online.
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Post by chaucerianmyth on Jul 19, 2017 23:39:09 GMT -5
...and if you can relate to the music the relating to the artist gets easier. I did listen to Rush after listening to Resounding Footsteps andrew interview. I never would have done so otherwise. (I am writing on a burstrd iphone and most of the letters gets wrong. Sorry for that) Well, now I have to know: how'd you like Rush? What did you listen to? (also child wagon is a damn cool term for a stroller)
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olofdigre
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Post by olofdigre on Jul 20, 2017 2:28:37 GMT -5
...and if you can relate to the music the relating to the artist gets easier. I did listen to Rush after listening to Resounding Footsteps andrew interview. I never would have done so otherwise. (I am writing on a burstrd iphone and most of the letters gets wrong. Sorry for that) Well, now I have to know: how'd you like Rush? What did you listen to? (also child wagon is a damn cool term for a stroller) This is now Rush thread. All post not Rush-related will be moved to an other thread. First I do not like any rock music. But I can still enjoy it and separate the good from the bad. I listened to the top results on youtube. Most notably here is that last time I heard Rush it was after I had seen them on the trailer park boys. Before that I had only listened to Tom Sawyer and before that I had heard just samples of that song. I liked their production and teamwork. I appreciated their composing this time around because you had pointed me in that direction with your interview. I have no background listening to rock music other than rolling stones as my father listened to them when I was a kid. Also I have listen to lots of Blackmetal but I did not get into that from heavy metal or rock. I did listen to synth music mostly and had mortiis records in the 90s and I heard Burzum at a friends place and then got into Immortal through noise music. Of course I have heard all kinds of music since music is all around but I have never been into rock music other than blackmetal. And it is only child wagon if you directly translate it from Swedish part of word by word. we call it Barnvagn (barn = child, vagn = wagon) It is the Danish people who do not know their own language and replaces the words they can not remember with English ones. ok. this can go back to being a Person behind the Project-thread.
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Post by Pilgrim's Shadow on Jul 20, 2017 6:57:34 GMT -5
For me, music and people are different things when it comes to the kind of music which is not social, the kind you listen alone (Dungeon Synth, for me). So in that case, i don't care what is the personality of the person who made the music, if i like it, i listen to it.
I alwayes loved Burzum, since childhood. Then i discovered all the political subjects all around him which i extremely dislike. Yet, he is still one of my favorite artists, and make music which speaks to me dearly. What can you do?
I do admit that it would be an easier listening to non-social music if the artists are to be annonymous. It will help me enjoy the music without thinking too much.
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Tyrannus
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Knowledge is Night
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Post by Tyrannus on Jul 20, 2017 6:59:48 GMT -5
For me, music and people are different things when it comes to the kind of music which is not social, the kind you listen alone (Dungeon Synth, for me). So in that case, i don't care what is the personality of the person who made the music, if i like it, i listen to it. I alwayes loved Burzum, since childhood. Then i discovered all the political subjects all around him which i extremely dislike. Yet, he is still one of my favorite artists, and make music which speaks to me dearly. What can you do? I do admit that it would be an easier listening to non-social music if the artists are to be annonymous. It will help me enjoy the music without thinking too much. So you'd say there is social music and not social music? That's interesting, I guess I have some music I play around others more than other music, but I'm not sure if I ever kinda put it in two distinct categories like that.
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Post by Pilgrim's Shadow on Jul 20, 2017 7:14:13 GMT -5
well it's not an exact science, but i'm guessing that DS is an experience which is only you in your room and your art. The only thing social about DS which i can think of is while D&D sessions. And you have music, like partying music, Glam Metal, Electro Dance, etc, is well, partying music. You'll listen to it with friends, in Parties, concerts, etc.
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Post by thekeeper on Jul 20, 2017 10:08:42 GMT -5
It's situational for me, but persona only alters my listening to a very minor degree. Sometimes knowing more about the artist enhances the listening experience, but typically it doesn't make much of a difference at all. I can't think of artists whose personal lives I've learned about which caused a diminished listening experience. Like Pilgrim's Shadow said, I'm not trad or odalist but I don't listen to Burzum any differently after Thulean Perspective became a thing. I don't care that Lamentation later formed Wolfnacht. Even if an artist revolves their project around an ideology, I still might listen to it even if I'm not partial to their views. Especially with black metal, its can be a guessing game for those who wish to avoid NS stuff. Sometimes an artist turns out to be the opposite of what people expect (Satanic Warmaster is left-libertarian), or sometimes their music is apolitical and they turn out to have a room full of celtic cross flags and a hard-drive full of wheat field maidens. I don't try and avoid reading any interviews or anything for fear of 'sullying my listening experience' or whatever. But it's more often positive, I think. Like with Mortiis, from reading and listening to interviews he seems like a kool guy. His Era I stuff was really constructed around this whole world he had created and held dear to him and that likely enhanced his music for me, to some degree. I still would have enjoyed it anyway if I never learned about his intentions and ideas, but I guess I can't say to what degree it'd be different. It's probably not that big of a boost, but I like his concepts. I think I most often enjoy anonymity amongst artists if persona does affect me. The one Abandoned Places interview was kool, and if he revealed himself and became suddenly sociable in the DS scene, that's fine, but I think anonymity can enhance a listening experience as much as appreciating an artist as a person and their ideas behind their music. I think for me with anonymity it's an appreciation that the artist is confident in their music to the point where they don't feel the need to enter themselves into the fray of the scene. Some avoid social media, responding to emails only and keeping conversations intimate and non-public, which is nice, but some don't converse with anyone at all. Instead of a package (artist + music), you're just getting the music and they're comfortable with that being enough, which is kool. Especially with DS, the mysterious and anonymous aspect of much of it and its artists sits very well with me. Personally, I'd much rather be known for my music and label-work than my online self. I'd rather my persona not affect reaction to artistic output. I'm quite fine with not being known at all if that's the way things turn out. Very minimal promotion.
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Post by ranseur on Jul 20, 2017 12:26:00 GMT -5
Some good points here. I think it's definitely different when it's way underground and you know the person or you have mutual friends or whatever compared to a famous musician. Because when you know the person I feel like it's natural to focus on whether or not they're a nice person. You don't see people worrying about that with Danzig or whatever.
Varg is kind of a rough example though. Of course he's very far right, but he's also insane. He ends up being along the lines of GG Allin or Charles Manson in most people's minds I think. I feel like that's why some people will shrug it off with burzum but then get all weird about inquisition even though they never said anything half as fucked up as varg, just border line stuff as far as I know. Because Varg is this crazy person fresh out of prison hanging out in the woods, and other bands are thought of as the type of regular people you might see at a show or whatever.
But there are some musicians where I really love the persona, people like Dio, Diamanda Galas, Tom Waits, Lemmy. It's hard for me to deny that. But there are other times where I don't really care.
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