Spiritual Beliefs

[andrewwerdna]

I'm curious what spiritual beliefs dungeon synth people hold, for those of you comfortable sharing.

Believe in some sort of God/gods?

Believe in an afterlife?

Any occult practice/go to church?

I think I might've gone into my thoughts a bit somewhere on this forum, but basically I believe in God in the sense that I think the core of our experience of reality is an individual intelligence, as in a realm of ideas rather than material. I think some sort of afterlife is more likely than not for this reason, and the fact that we regularly die in our dreams and just "wake up." But I'm not Christian and wasn't raised Christian, so I don't feel much of a drive towards or against Christianity except that it's the most popular religion where I live. I've had an interest in the occult for a long time, but it's never gotten serious to the point of ceremonial practice. I tend to be skeptical of that sort of thing, however I think there is a strong value to programming one's own subconscious and that there's a good reason religions exist in every society. I also think tarot cards are really cool but just in a "universal archetypes" sense. I'm open-minded though. I've experienced synchronicities that seem beyond the realm of coincidence.

[olofdigre]

I believe in this. I hope in this. I trust in this.  No personal variation. Of course I have personal ideas and fears and thought apart from this but I do not put my faith in anything other than this. I try to be reasonable and tolerant when it comes to all things but I do not accept it all. I am a Christian. I am closed-minded but interested in most things. 

[olofdigre]

...and I try to be respectful and open to my fellow man. as it is said "what comes around is all around".

[andrewwerdna]

Orthodox Christianity seems powerful. I really like the art and the chanting and the ancient aesthetic.

How do you feel about the explicitly anti-Christian elements in black metal? Do you avoid listening to artists like Burzum?

[Alder]

I was raised mostly non-religious, with a touch of cultural judaism (despite having not a drop of chosen blood).
These days I essentially worship the natural world and mundane in all its forms. I'm a scientist by profession and the awe of the powers, space, and timescales of the universe-that-is & how incredibly small we are within it shapes much of my thinking. Sometimes I half-jokingly refer to myself as a "non-practicing animist" as respect for the many aspect of the environment is very important to me & I make great effort to leave little impact and give back to nature.

The universe-that-was is what created us, and the universe-that-will-be is where we go when we die. That's all I know.
I suppose my over-arching belief is that to think we apes can Understand Everything is a fatal hubris.

[ranseur]

It's kind of a long story for me that I don't normally go into detail with on the internet, but I am a practising occultist. I use a few unorthodox techniques but in other ways I'm a fairly traditional occultist attempting to complete the great work, hga, crossing the abyss, all that stuff. I use some elements of animism in my paradigmatic construction but I am not a new age style practitioner or modern healer. I'm much more focused on high magick than anything else but I have a very bare bones approach.

[olofdigre]

Aug 16, 2017 19:34:37 GMT -5 andrewwerdna said:

Orthodox Christianity seems powerful. I really like the art and the chanting and the ancient aesthetic.

How do you feel about the explicitly anti-Christian elements in black metal? Do you avoid listening to artists like Burzum?

There is no thing more powerful. 

In my mind filosofem is one of the best records ever made but I do not listen to any blackmetal anymore since it is clashes to much with my own inner warfare. But I come from blackmetal. I do. But where we not all heathens before the gospel? What good is any experience if we just dismiss what we have learned and where we have been. all we know about Norse mythology we know today because Christians like Snorre Sturlasson thought it valuable to write it down for us to remember. But I do not listen to blackmetal or even unblack metal today because I can not handle it. I love the sound to much. 

Satanic symbols in any music or media sometimes make me sad and sometimes angry but mostly it does not make me react. I have more problems with popmusic where the satanic or antichristian aesthetics and purposes lays hidden and are targeting young kids. Acts like Madonna, Lady Gaga, the Beatles and all those are soaked in satanic, occult and antichristian values and I do have a problem with that because it aims to destroy but sneaky and hidden. Blackmetal and all that are open with it and is more honest. And most of pentagram-rock is just kids trying to be offensive to those around them. Being rebellious to the world is also what is expected from me as a Christian. And it has been called the last true rebellion (http://deathtotheworld.com/). Is it really rebellious to be antichristian in a world where even those who call themselves christian have lost all connection to the teaching of Christ, the writings of the Fathers and the 2000 year old tradition of the Church? But who am I to explain this when it has been done already by better men than I?: www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxqikZuc1p8

Also I would like to say that for those who are interested in the occult, the mysteries of old and all that often are more respectful and understanding of Orthodoxy. It is easier to me to talk about faith and my hope in Christ and the demons and all that to my friends who have come from blackmetal, like I have, than those who has just been raised by the media. 

In Christ. Olof. 

[DieuxDesCimetieres]

I'm an agnostic philosophically, but in my day-to-day life, it means I'm effectively an atheist. What I mean by that is that I don't know of there is one or more gods who have created the world and us, and I don't believe we will ever know with full certainty. Because of that, I don't bind myself to any religious dogma or codes of conduct; instead, I strive to live my life in a way that fulfills my idea of a "good life" and my concept of ethical behaviour.

However, being to a very large extent a nihilist, I find it hard to believe in a compassionate superior entity. The Cthulhu Mythos of Lovecraft appeals to me very much, because the deities in it are not inherently hostile or benevolent to something as trivial as man; rather, unless disturbed, they are oblivious to us. That is how I see existence and our insignificant role in it.

I am very interested in religion, spirituality and metaphysical philosophy, though, and have read the Bible, the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Enuma Elish, the poetic Edda and many other "classical" religious texts to both educate myself and see if I can find a god to believe in in any of those. So far, nothing.

EDIT:
Re: belief in afterlife; this is something I've been thinking about quite a bit, both because a lot of close people around me have died in recent years, and because my son wondered what happens when we die. I find the explanation you can derive from plain physics quite appealing: if there is no "soul" or "spirit", then all that there is, is our physical body. And matter is only energy bound to a specific structure. In a closed system, which our universe is as far as we know, no energy can appear or disappear; instead, the amount remains constant, it just changes form. So when we die, the very building blocks of our being merely dissolve into the fabric of the universe and manifest in some new form somewhere, sometime. But nothing is lost. I find that a beautiful notion.

[Deleted]

I'm a roman Catholic.

[Insert here a random joke about pedophile priests]

[poppet108]

Sorry for bumping this dead thread, but I'm Jewish, culturally, religiously and ethnically, although since I'm a religion major in college, I find all religions fascinating. I'm actually going to Finland to study Christian theology. I'm very into asceticism, and that translates a lot into many themes in my music. I'm a guy who's generally really interested in mysticism and obscure aspects of religion, so in that way I love all religions. Much of my music is also influenced by Buddhism, as it was one of my formative introductions to other religions when I was a youth. The 108 in my name comes from the auspicious number in Buddhism and Hinduism, because there are 108 sanskrit letters.

[Pilgrim's Shadow]

Mar 23, 2018 10:32:56 GMT -5 poppet108 said:

Sorry for bumping this dead thread, but I'm Jewish, culturally, religiously and ethnically, although since I'm a religion major in college, I find all religions fascinating. I'm actually going to Finland to study Christian theology. I'm very into asceticism, and that translates a lot into many themes in my music. I'm a guy who's generally really interested in mysticism and obscure aspects of religion, so in that way I love all religions. Much of my music is also influenced by Buddhism, as it was one of my formative introductions to other religions when I was a youth. The 108 in my name comes from the auspicious number in Buddhism and Hinduism, because there are 108 sanskrit letters.

May i ask if you're a religious jewish? like an orthodox or reform? Are you going to the synagouge? i'm just curious (maybe i have missed something in your text, my english is bad haha)
I'm curious because i live in Israel, and allthough i am not religious in any way, people still count me "jewish", which is really not who i am. In any other religion you can just say you're out, and your're out ! be here in Israel, judaism has a problem with that, and i wanted to know if it is the same in other countries. 

[poppet108]

Jul 9, 2018 13:40:10 GMT -5 Pilgrim's Shadow said:

Mar 23, 2018 10:32:56 GMT -5 poppet108 said:

Sorry for bumping this dead thread, but I'm Jewish, culturally, religiously and ethnically, although since I'm a religion major in college, I find all religions fascinating. I'm actually going to Finland to study Christian theology. I'm very into asceticism, and that translates a lot into many themes in my music. I'm a guy who's generally really interested in mysticism and obscure aspects of religion, so in that way I love all religions. Much of my music is also influenced by Buddhism, as it was one of my formative introductions to other religions when I was a youth. The 108 in my name comes from the auspicious number in Buddhism and Hinduism, because there are 108 sanskrit letters.

May i ask if you're a religious jewish? like an orthodox or reform? Are you going to the synagouge? i'm just curious (maybe i have missed something in your text, my english is bad haha)
I'm curious because i live in Israel, and allthough i am not religious in any way, people still count me "jewish", which is really not who i am. In any other religion you can just say you're out, and your're out ! be here in Israel, judaism has a problem with that, and i wanted to know if it is the same in other countries. 

I think I was religiously jewish for a bit, but it's very on and off. Sometimes I wish I was Orthodox, other times I think it's far too strict for me. Last summer I went to an orthodox Jewish camp where I was basically Orthodox, although I disagreed with a lot of the social rules. Right now I'm interested in other religions, like Santeria and Yoruba traditions, but I still maintain some beliefs.

[Tyrannus]

I was born and raised a Unitarian Universalist and still try to go to church when I can. For those unfamiliar with it, you could very loosely call it a branch of Christianity but it’s pretty unique

[dungeonsnake]

I was raised vaguely Christian, like many other American suburbanites. My grandfather was an Episcopal missionary, which was hard on my father at times. He raised us to follow our own inclinations. I became very involved with Germanic paganism for a while. I do feel that I am deeply connected to my ancestors, and to this form of religion through them. Frankly, I do not wish to go into great detail here. I had to abandon that religious tradition, as I eventually found it to be deeply death-oriented. I realized it would inevitably lead to my own violent, early death. This would have been alright with me at the time, but it would have been an incredible hardship to my family. So I turned from that path.

I now meditate sometimes at a Buddhist temple nearby, although I do not consider myself Buddhist. I suppose my own spiritual inclinations are closer to animist, although I believe that any religious tradition is an equal path to God.

[wyverngarden]

I'd describe myself as an Immanist. I see everything as a radical immanence, immanent only to itself, producing even all of our thoughts but at the same time foreclosed to thought. This conception is nondualistic; it is closest to that of the Greek Neoplatonist school and also the Advaita Vedanta. But it is also not a monism, like Spinoza's substance, Leibniz's monadology and so on.

This probably makes little sense so I have to explain further. One has to return to pagan or even medieval conceptions where God or gods were immanent in the world, as a starting point. But to think this immanence requires, or in fact positions, these gods as transcendent, and on the other side creates a world that is unholy or disenchanted without their presence. Herein lies the danger (so beautifully expressed in Holderlin's poem Patmos) that the gods may flee altogether, which is more or less the modern situation in the West, described more fully by Nietzsche and so on.  So immanence is only ever immanent to itself -- that's the central concept.

Immanism seems like an atheism, but that's highly misleading. When the gods flee, we don't recover the originary immanence. We still have the dichotomy spirit/matter, except with "matter" being all that's left. The point is that "matter" in its scientific conception is still conceived in a thoroughly religious way, as that which is debased and disenchanted. Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris etc. all promote this kind of thinking. This is why Immanism is not an atheism, though it may be defined as one -- it is about as far from Dawkins as it is possible to get.

Anyway, in the 1920's Georges Bataille thought he had a solution to the "debasing" of matter, simply destabilize the matter/spirit dichotomy with a third term he called "base materialism", also "radical evil." This is the origin of an anti-dialectical move commonly known as "deconstruction": take dichotomies and blow them up through third terms which expose their blind spot. A dialectical overcoming (a la Hegel) simply re-entrenches the dichotomy. This essay on base materialism ("Gnosticism and Base Materialism") is why Bataille is called a forefather of deconstruction. But in this case Bataille's deconstruction seems not really so successful. Certainly, it didn't change anyone's mind, even in the arts where he is best known. We will return to Bataille though, he is a very important thinker here.

Anyway, we saw in fact how gods are born, from what we call "thought", which is immanence's emergent practice of reflecting back on itself. Thought is really local emergences and has nothing specifically to do with human thought except as a special case. Even a stone thinks through the intermolecular forces that hold it together, and so on. But the price of the birth of a God or system of gods (which is really just an understanding of Being) is a split in the fabric of immanence, a wound that must be healed lest the gods flee, leaving only the disenchanted world now fully claimed by "thought". This is why in the end immanence must only be immanent to itself. One cannot even think the One-All; (that's why Immanism is not a monism), because the One-All is transcendentally separated from what the One-All attempts to represent. This was Spinoza's mistake.

But further problems remain. Even "the idea of radical immanence" shows up as nothing different than the One-All, so it becomes clear one cannot even speak of it or think it, a principle I am more or less violating here for the sake of communication. Nor can one apply apophatic thinking (the via negativa, or meditative thinking -- the way of "unknowing" described so beautifully in the 14th century text The Cloud of Unknowing). Thus to have an idea "of" immanence is even the wrong question. The very question must be transformed into a way of being (not thinking) "within" immanence, which itself escapes the limits of the thinkable.

Incidentally Being-within immanence is often thought (in the West) as an animal way of being, in that of course the fictitious divide human/animal disappears. Bataille in the first chapter of his Theory of Religion equates animality with immanence, and has a famous quote "The animal is in the world like water in water." "Like water in water" evokes very well this stance, this ethics of immanence which cannot really be expressed except in this kind of poetic form.

Bataille, who founded the Acephale secret society that has of late been so influential on my thought, is well worth studying, and was one of the first in the 20th century to recognize the problem of immanence.

One contemporary thinker, the obscure philosopher Francois Laruelle, who is sometimes associated with a movement called "Speculative Realism", has made it his life's work to find ways to think within immanence via axiomatic transformations of thought. Laruelle's basic idea which he calls "non-philosophy" ("non" in the sense of "non-Euclidean") is to expose all philosophy as having this invariant structure (similar to spirit/matter) that results in a tear in the fabric of immanence. He calls this structure "Philosophical Decision". Non-philosophy is thus an axiomatic transformation of philosophy (which can be applied to any specific philosopher's work) that suspends Philosophical Decision and thereby converts thoughts "of" to thoughts "within". But I'm skeptical of Laruelle, first because I'm skeptical of possibilities purely within thought and second because I do not really understand him, he is a very difficult read owing to the nature of his task (which is really transformation of language). However, he did write a very "readable" prose poem called "On the Black Universe (In the Human foundations of color). This I highly recommend at least to see what is "valuable" in Laruelle's way of thinking, and why it may be worthwhile sloughing through his other texts:

www.recessart.org/wp-content/uploads/Laruelle-Black-Universe1.pdf

I'm aware I've probably bored everyone, but this stuff is really important to me as I think a lot about animality, posthuman religion and so on, escaping the bounds of the human or even the 'actual', so immanence can be a major obstacle in fully transforming oneself. What would a wolf or dragon spirituality be, for instance. Hence Immanism. Any converts?