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Post by andrewwerdna on Jan 29, 2017 2:37:38 GMT -5
I often wonder whether dungeon synth might be psychologically toxic Interesting observation. What makes you think that? Well, it's not anything specific in the music. But I had an experience almost ten years ago where I was in a bit of an altered state and decided to watch the Mortiis - Reisene video, which I loved at the time (still do), and figured it was perfect for my spacey spiritual state of mind at that moment. When I went to watch it, however, rather than finding it majestic, spiritual, and enchanting I was instead surprised to find it grotesque, hollow, and diseased. I felt that my love for this kind of music was a symptom of my own psychological and spiritual corruption. I cried, and I'm normally not one to ever cry. I doubted whether any of the music I loved was substantial or all just delusion. I decided to watch Baraka after that, which was a good choice because it certainly shined a light on that gloom, and there was a Dead Can Dance song in there which was even more beautiful than normal, so that showed that not ALL my favorite music was so toxic. While I was having this experience I felt that I should abandon this dungeon stuff and seek out more fulfilling music. But obviously that didn't happen. The next day the music sounded great again, and I still love that music video. I tried recreating those conditions after that, but never had such an experience of dread towards art since, so I've come to the conclusion that this was just an weird moment in time. But that moment still haunts me and makes me wonder whether dungeon synth might be inherently a sort of delusional poison. So I like it when I hear such healthy-sounding ds like that Foglord album.
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Post by nahadoth on Jan 30, 2017 0:34:50 GMT -5
That's an interesting observation for sure - I think that yes, generally we're equipped to handle all of the negative trappings of things like DS and black metal without becoming a murderer, or being a barbarian or evil warlock or what have you. But there are definitely moments of psychological vulnerability that I've had which make it impossible to listen to a lot of stuff in this genre. And it doesn't ever permanently affect my ability to enjoy it, either. Which is why I enjoy the range of stuff being released these days, so that there's bleak and raw stuff to balance alongside some lighter and more ethereal/magical stuff.
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dmr
Peasant
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Post by dmr on Feb 5, 2017 10:02:46 GMT -5
I tried recreating those conditions after that, but never had such an experience of dread towards art since, so I've come to the conclusion that this was just an weird moment in time. Yeah, it sounds like it was just a one time thing (probably having more to do with your "altered state" that anything else.) But your post made me check out the Foglord album and I liked it quite a bit, so thanks for that.
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Post by Ananoriel on Feb 5, 2017 18:30:39 GMT -5
I don't know if the music could be toxic. It is more about the state you are in and how you feel about the music, about how you see it I mean. I never really feel influenced by the music I listen. But if I am in a certain mood, music can empathize those feelings. If I am feeling very down, I am not going to listen to doom music because I know it will make it worse. But if I am going to listen to happy music I still feel down. The same goes for feeling happy. Happy music makes me even happier, but sad music doesn't turn me into a sad state.
So I might think you were in a kind of dreadful or some kind of negative state perhaps? That you viewed it like that? I don't know.
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Post by thekeeper on Nov 28, 2017 13:00:04 GMT -5
[Continued from the DS review blog thread, I felt this deserved to be in this one more] I'm starting a discography listen-though right now. Dagor Bragalloch is a great album, I don't know why this was removed from BC. Okay finally finished listening through everything. Dagor and TNF were much better than the other two albums, in my opinion. I feel that Dagor was removed for its use of more VST sounding instruments than the symphonic reverby sounds that make up the other albums, but I don't think there's anything amateurish compositionally that would cause him to remove it. I would guess he later felt it was more of an experiment in getting to the sound he wants. First track is great, interesting percussive start, too. There's more variety here than anything that would come after it. I would hope its reissued. Still have the flac files from the original release. Towers of the Teeth got into the reverby late-era-one Mortiis sound that he's known for now, but I felt that generally the release was still a 'sound-learning' release, trying to achieve that certain sound before coming into more of his own which left the writing sounding kind of bland. I like the second track far more than the first. While being similar to the first, I think the second track achieves a much more memorable and well written kind of classic Mortiis-influenced feel. I think this the momentum of the second track followed into TNF. Taur Nu Fuin is wildly popular, perhaps hype being a factor in that with its vinyl release, but its a good album. While its very Anden/Keiser sounding, I still think there's a sound that pertains to Thangorodrim himself here. It's heavy in Mortiis influence, but still retains individuality even if a tag line of that individuality would be "hail Mortiis". He's not just Mortiis-y here. The synths aren't too huge or cinematic sounding to fully constitute the album being hi-fi, the thinness of the flute comes in nicely on the second track for example (this flute line gets stuck in my head despite its three note simplicity), it's still quite DS feeling and really treads the threshold between low and high fidelity. The drums are pounding but aren't as cinematic as Gil-Estel. He does the timpani/cymbal roll to transition pace changes, but its not overused. The movie samples retain a lo-fi sound which complements the atmosphere. It still suffers a bit from predictability at times, but I think its the pre-realization of formula, not the product of formula. Gil-Estel seemed to me like the product of recognizing a formula. Triumphant yet melancholic long key presses, building to timpani/cymbal roll, breaking out into a Pirates of the Caribbean theme with a faster pace, breaking into a timpani/cymbal roll which drops it back down to a more minimal kind of sad synth lines which slowly work their up in pace to a timpani/cymbal roll reprise of the PoC theme, ending off on a minimal melancholic synth outro. Not that TNF was immune to this, you can identify this pattern in the album, but TNF was just better written. There are some good riffs in Gil-Estel, the faster paced riff in Ancalagon is good and I really like the piano line in Vingilótë, but otherwise I feel the writing takes a backseat to the concept of being "old-school" which stales the music quite often. The last track was pure formula and could've been left off entirely. Ultimately for me Gil-Estel was a heavier reverb-laden formulaic TNF with some of the more lo-fi elements taken away that aided TNF's sound. I think you could cut a lot of the album down and make a decent EP: cut out some parts of the Great Battle, keep Ancalagon and Vingilótë, and you've got a release that could maybe stand on its own. I think there was a ton of hype behind the release that led to a kind of general/blanketed praise for it being AotY for many, and a bit of trve-DS non-critical traditionalist clinginess for being a beacon of Mortiis-worship contrasting more bedroom and experimental digital releases, but I also feel the album is susceptible to some disdain among the non-trve crowd for being the trad-AotY. It deserves fair engagement just as anything else. It's not a bad album but I don't think it's good. It's a pretty take-it-or-leave-it album overall.
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Post by nahadoth on Nov 28, 2017 17:19:15 GMT -5
I'll always remember that percussion intro for Angband on the first album. The album felt a little unfocused for me, but had some character that I heard less and less of in the subsequent releases.
Interesting to hear your take on Gil Estel. I haven't revisited that album since a listen on day one. I was underwhelmed, and that has as much to do with the hype as it does with the music itself.
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Post by thekeeper on Nov 28, 2017 17:39:23 GMT -5
I'll always remember that percussion intro for Angband on the first album. The album felt a little unfocused for me, but had some character that I heard less and less of in the subsequent releases. Interesting to hear your take on Gil Estel. I haven't revisited that album since a listen on day one. I was underwhelmed, and that has as much to do with the hype as it does with the music itself. I remember when Dagor first came out I was pretty intrigued by the barren red lava-scape cover and ominous percussive introduction with interesting CRPG sounds. I was interested in where the project would go next at the time, and Dagor is probably still his best release, but since then the project has moved in a totally different direction away from I liked with the first album. TNF was fine, but it's a different album. 'Underwhelming' is pretty spot on for Gil-Estel. Hype for this was huge, which probably let down some people more than they would've been, for those who weren't too sure of it to begin with, and shot it to AotY for people who were intrigued more positively. I feel like just dropping an album out of nowhere is the best way to put out a DS release, and definitely the least commercial. For physicals, I wouldn't say more than a week in advance for the news just in case people want to save money or whatever, unless you have preorders but that's rare unless you're putting out vinyl (and even then..)
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Post by Witherer on Nov 28, 2017 19:17:55 GMT -5
I was underwhelmed, and that has as much to do with the hype as it does with the music itself. This was my same initial position. But I kept finding myself returning to it and started really enjoying it in spite of the hype. This isn't to say that you'll change your mind but it is worth another visit.
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Post by thekeeper on Nov 29, 2017 15:29:48 GMT -5
I was underwhelmed, and that has as much to do with the hype as it does with the music itself. This was my same initial position. But I kept finding myself returning to it and started really enjoying it in spite of the hype. This isn't to say that you'll change your mind but it is worth another visit. I'll revisit the album more after the discussion has fizzled, and perhaps it'll grow on me a bit. TNF took a few listens for me to like.
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Post by nahadoth on Dec 1, 2017 19:23:42 GMT -5
I mean, I fully admit that in the moment I succumbed to the hype and bought a CD, so I will definitely revisit it at some point. After the end of the year lists have been published, maybe.
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Tyrannus
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Knowledge is Night
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Post by Tyrannus on Dec 1, 2017 19:24:38 GMT -5
I mean, I fully admit that in the moment I succumbed to the hype and bought a CD, so I will definitely revisit it at some point. After the end of the year lists have been published, maybe. On that note, it’s december so I think I’ll start that up
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Post by nahadoth on Dec 1, 2017 19:25:29 GMT -5
I'm probably gonna wait at least until the solstice, as last year (ahem) there were a number of good releases in mid-late December.
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Tyrannus
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Post by Tyrannus on Dec 1, 2017 19:30:23 GMT -5
I'm probably gonna wait at least until the solstice, as last year (ahem) there were a number of good releases in mid-late December. That’s fair, but I’ll open up the discussion at least
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Post by nahadoth on Dec 1, 2017 19:37:47 GMT -5
I'm probably gonna wait at least until the solstice, as last year (ahem) there were a number of good releases in mid-late December. That’s fair, but I’ll open up the discussion at least Now that I've said that, I am starting to realize that my list is going to be much the same as my half-year check-in. There's been a lot of great stuff since midsummer but I'm going to try to hold myself to the same criteria of "I've listened to this album at least 5 times without having to force myself to do so" as I had earlier.
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