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Post by toodarkpark on Aug 9, 2018 15:31:24 GMT -5
Just wondering what peoples thoughts were on people attacking DS music and whether this was bad or good for it as a whole? I can see both sides of this even though it irrates me more than it should probably. On the down side ignorance and trolling annoy me, but could attacks strengthen DS artists and the sense of community there in?
Love to hear peoples thoughts.
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Post by stormcrow on Aug 9, 2018 15:39:45 GMT -5
Are there people who attack DS music? Really?
It's all part of the game...there had been people attacking heavy metal, grunge, punk, black metal, even people attacking Mozart and Paganini. Well, I don't mind them at all. Ask them to do better, if they can.
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Tyrannus
Verified Account
Knowledge is Night
Posts: 806
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Post by Tyrannus on Aug 9, 2018 16:06:58 GMT -5
Nothing is universally liked so idk seems normal
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Post by thekeeper on Aug 9, 2018 16:27:00 GMT -5
DS has a weird small reputation. I've heard from a number of more 'veteran' BM guys that these 90s DS tapes we enjoy so much these days were often pretty lambasted in their day. Zines and distros had to put like "WARNING: NOT METAL", which one one hand makes sense because some people just aren't into electronic or keyboard stuff, but it sounds like it got made fun of more than we'd expect. I'm sure Mortiis received his fair share of flak for wearing a troll mask and making fantasy keyboard music, which just sounds setup for locker-pushing. Of course I can't speak much to just how often the 90s tapes were shot down in the BM scene, I can only go off of what I've heard. I'm assuming some of the more highly praised projects had an easier time, like Depressive Silence.
DS still gets made fun of these days as 'basement nerd keyboard music', which isn't technically wrong, and that's probably a positive for most of us. I think if DS was mostly hi-fi stuff, it'd get made fun of less and taken more as a soundtrack kind of genre than this lo-fi synth BM related kind of thing. As far as outright attacks though, I've rarely if ever have seen these, and I'd bet these people aren't being totally honest. Attacking DS would have to be a pretty far-reaching projection. DS has a fairly supportive community, I don't know how many would be put off by the naysayers.
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Post by ranseur on Aug 9, 2018 17:26:09 GMT -5
People are attacking it less now than ever. Fifteen years ago I felt like I had to keep it a secret that I liked this stuff just to avoid getting into an immature internet fight or whatever.
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kktz
Cleric
Posts: 188
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Post by kktz on Aug 9, 2018 19:52:56 GMT -5
Don't worry, they are just jealous It is not music for everyone, and now when it is a bit more known, it may happen here and there.
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Post by andrewwerdna on Aug 10, 2018 0:16:20 GMT -5
I say bring on the attacks. They're probably inevitable the bigger the genre gets, so better to look at it like what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
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Post by Master on Aug 10, 2018 2:35:50 GMT -5
Everything that is not "standard" and "mainstream" gets attacked and mocked, regardless of whether there is a valid reason to do it. Usually, the furthest from the "standard reference" something is the more it gets attacked, probably because ignorance and lack of understanding are the root reasons for going against something in the first place.
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Post by Ghost on Aug 11, 2018 12:42:56 GMT -5
I've seen plenty of people say they don't like/get DS, but I've honestly never seen anyone attack or even be remotely critical of DS. Would be interesting to see that.
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Post by crystallogic13 on Aug 11, 2018 13:29:19 GMT -5
Never seen one too and to be honest WHY would anyone "attack" DS ? Nah no worries here.. Plenty of fighters and sorcerers here to protect the place just in case..
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Post by andrewwerdna on Aug 11, 2018 13:33:05 GMT -5
I just found this thread, some interesting direct attacks: nwnprod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=65308&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0It's funny to me that one of the criticisms I see most often is that DS "all sounds the same," and usually that's from black metal people. I mean, seriously? Dungeon synth is like objectively more varied album-to-album than black metal. Every black metal album is the standard rock assortment of guitar, bass, drums, and vocals, with relatively formulaic song structures. But the instrument assortment of DS is completely open to any classical or ancient instrument samples, as well as infinite possibilities of synthesized textures not found in real-world instruments, and the song structures of DS can go from absurdly repetitive to verging on classical fluidity, and everywhere in between. And of course the people who put forth that criticism cite artists like Old Tower and Thangorodrim as exceptions, who in my opinion are some of the few artists for whom that criticism does actually apply (for example: Old Tower-Stellary Wisdom, Mortiis-FΓΈdt Til Γ
Herske).
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Post by Pilgrim's Shadow on Aug 11, 2018 15:33:44 GMT -5
I just found this thread, some interesting direct attacks: nwnprod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=65308&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0It's funny to me that one of the criticisms I see most often is that DS "all sounds the same," and usually that's from black metal people. I mean, seriously? Dungeon synth is like objectively more varied album-to-album than black metal. Every black metal album is the standard rock assortment of guitar, bass, drums, and vocals, with relatively formulaic song structures. But the instrument assortment of DS is completely open to any classical or ancient instrument samples, as well as infinite possibilities of synthesized textures not found in real-world instruments, and the song structures of DS can go from absurdly repetitive to verging on classical fluidity, and everywhere in between. And of course the people who put forth that criticism cite artists like Old Tower and Thangorodrim as exceptions, who in my opinion are some of the few artists for whom that criticism does actually apply (for example: Old Tower-Stellary Wisdom, Mortiis-FΓΈdt Til Γ
Herske). True, i get much more variation from Dungeon Synth then from black metal (which is also very varied). I think that in general saying about a genre of music that it's "all sounds the same" is just wrong. Obviously nothing sounds the same, perhaps it is not interesting enough for them to actually listen to the music so they think it sounds the same - this i can accept as an argument.
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Post by ranseur on Aug 11, 2018 17:54:34 GMT -5
I just found this thread, some interesting direct attacks: nwnprod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=65308&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0It's funny to me that one of the criticisms I see most often is that DS "all sounds the same," and usually that's from black metal people. I mean, seriously? Dungeon synth is like objectively more varied album-to-album than black metal. Every black metal album is the standard rock assortment of guitar, bass, drums, and vocals, with relatively formulaic song structures. But the instrument assortment of DS is completely open to any classical or ancient instrument samples, as well as infinite possibilities of synthesized textures not found in real-world instruments, and the song structures of DS can go from absurdly repetitive to verging on classical fluidity, and everywhere in between. And of course the people who put forth that criticism cite artists like Old Tower and Thangorodrim as exceptions, who in my opinion are some of the few artists for whom that criticism does actually apply (for example: Old Tower-Stellary Wisdom, Mortiis-FΓΈdt Til Γ
Herske). Haha yeah, it's the same as when d beat people say all noise sounds the same and then you find out they've only heard the common merzbow type and know nothing about it beyond that.
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Post by thekeeper on Aug 12, 2018 0:48:33 GMT -5
I just found this thread, some interesting direct attacks: nwnprod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=65308&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0It's funny to me that one of the criticisms I see most often is that DS "all sounds the same," and usually that's from black metal people. I mean, seriously? Dungeon synth is like objectively more varied album-to-album than black metal. Every black metal album is the standard rock assortment of guitar, bass, drums, and vocals, with relatively formulaic song structures. But the instrument assortment of DS is completely open to any classical or ancient instrument samples, as well as infinite possibilities of synthesized textures not found in real-world instruments, and the song structures of DS can go from absurdly repetitive to verging on classical fluidity, and everywhere in between. And of course the people who put forth that criticism cite artists like Old Tower and Thangorodrim as exceptions, who in my opinion are some of the few artists for whom that criticism does actually apply (for example: Old Tower-Stellary Wisdom, Mortiis-FΓΈdt Til Γ
Herske). Haha yeah, it's the same as when d beat people say all noise sounds the same and then you find out they've only heard the common merzbow type and know nothing about it beyond that. This thread is funny. The exceptions listed are among a very standard orthodox DS sound. That's like saying "all bm sounds the same, I like Satanic Warmaster". I'm interested in why everyone in that thread seems to think that DS will die off soon. It's been around for a long time, especially now that we've recognized it as a proper genre. I'm guessing it's a matter of "now people know it's a thing, so they'll hop on, enjoy what spotlight they can until the bandwagon is full and it all falls apart". That might be the case if artists and fans weren't so passionate about DS. The genre is full of genuine people. I'm absolutely loving this thumbs down guy, though:
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Post by toodarkpark on Aug 12, 2018 0:49:30 GMT -5
I just found this thread, some interesting direct attacks: nwnprod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=65308&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0It's funny to me that one of the criticisms I see most often is that DS "all sounds the same," and usually that's from black metal people. I mean, seriously? Dungeon synth is like objectively more varied album-to-album than black metal. Every black metal album is the standard rock assortment of guitar, bass, drums, and vocals, with relatively formulaic song structures. But the instrument assortment of DS is completely open to any classical or ancient instrument samples, as well as infinite possibilities of synthesized textures not found in real-world instruments, and the song structures of DS can go from absurdly repetitive to verging on classical fluidity, and everywhere in between. And of course the people who put forth that criticism cite artists like Old Tower and Thangorodrim as exceptions, who in my opinion are some of the few artists for whom that criticism does actually apply (for example: Old Tower-Stellary Wisdom, Mortiis-FΓΈdt Til Γ
Herske). Yeah that's the thread that prompted me to make the thread in the first place, I found the level of ignorance very high.
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