|
Post by jondexter on Mar 23, 2020 7:05:57 GMT -5
I see a lot of people giving away free codes of their music in the facebook rooms now. Is this a good thing? Should we all just trade etc? I have been charging $3 Australian for tarkin turdfer am i an extortionist? Should music have a price? Is money inherently evil? Should we hope to one day sell records as ds artists? Or should we do our best to get our music out to people for free no matter the cost?
|
|
|
Post by crystallogic13 on Mar 23, 2020 8:36:53 GMT -5
Man a long discussion here.
PROS - As a fan, I think every single one of us, is happy when he receives a code from his favorite(or not so favorite) artist when otherwise he'd spend an x amount of money to get it. - For the artists, it seems in the Bandcamp age, purchases is a deciding factor for a lot of things : BCs promoted e.g."Top Dungeon Synth",fans seeing more purchases/comments = "probably worthwhile"). So since giveaways are handled as purchases in the count, it IS really worth it for someone to giveaway enough codes that if at least the music is worthwhile he'll get not only "collection counts/purchases" but also maybe one or two (hopefully)comments from some people ..
CONS - This all raises the question - Why ask money in the first place and not NYP? On the other side, people who actually paid for it maybe a day back might think twice before repurchasing from the artist.. - As a fan, nowadays comments + purchases are certainly NOT an indicator of anything, the pure only good comments mentality of facebook complimenting every single release ever as "masterful" "essential" and seeing sometime after release any album having 60 purchases makes me wonder how many of them are giveaways and comments from people feeling obliged to give back to the artist and how many are honest praise..
But anyway anyone is doing as he please and in the long run usually GOOD stuff is bright enough to discover despite the noise..
Personally if I were an artist, I'd think of this way :
- If my main/only income was coming from art, and I'd thought the price tag would be depicting somehow an artistic effort, I'd have no problem putting a price tag on my work. - If though someone has a different job and art is his side-hobby, then I see why not put just a NYP on your art so as many people as possible can enjoy your creation.. That's the bottom line isn't it ? Share your work/stuff to people who enjoy!
And finally if someone is undecided on whether to put and how much of a price tag, just check a lot of awesome releases that are NYP, or also vastly praised releases that have price tags, what they ask. And then compare and see if you still feel you should put a price tag compared to those ones.. The opposite example is from unproved artists that put on price tags like 5-7+ $ on their works and of course remain with max 1-2 purchases for years... What's the point...
|
|
|
Post by skirmisher on Mar 23, 2020 8:38:43 GMT -5
Each to their own I guess. I don't really care and I don't care for money either. I don't think there's anything wrong with charging for music but for now I've decided to keep my stuff as name your price with no minimum. If I do tapes which I probably will I'll charge a reasonable sum which might be a little over what I paid for making them, might be exactly what I paid. Don't know yet. There is no money in this anyway so I don't care that much. If people charge ridiculous sums I'll just ignore it altogether or laugh it off as silly but if it's pay what you want it makes me kind of want to pay something and support them.
I can't see a reality where $3 is too much for any kind of work of art. That sounds very reasonable to me.
|
|
|
Post by andrewwerdna on Mar 23, 2020 9:50:17 GMT -5
Yes, for a number of reasons. One big reason is that if one is able to stream it, it's already free. I don't think there are many people for whom actually having downloaded the files makes much of a difference for the listening experience. So requesting $5 rather than NYP seems kind of silly to me because either way it's basically a donation, it would be like a busker not accepting anything less than $5.
|
|
|
Post by skirmisher on Mar 23, 2020 11:23:25 GMT -5
That's a fair point. I find it hard to think of downloading files as any kind of ownership anyways even though I guess you could argue otherwise. If you get something extra with the download then maybe it changes something. Either way I don't care about that sort of thing since if I want to actually buy something I'll get physical. Otherwise I always consider it a donation unless they have limited the tracks you can listen to without paying which is fine to me too. I can't really argue against that even though I like to do things differently. I don't see dungeon synth coming commercial any time soon so I don't have a problem with this. And even if it comes to that there will be a counter movement and a new underground much like happened after black metal became trendy.
|
|
|
Post by jondexter on Mar 24, 2020 1:30:53 GMT -5
Yes, for a number of reasons. One big reason is that if one is able to stream it, it's already free. I don't think there are many people for whom actually having downloaded the files makes much of a difference for the listening experience. So requesting $5 rather than NYP seems kind of silly to me because either way it's basically a donation, it would be like a busker not accepting anything less than $5. Good point i never really thought of it like that. If people listen to the album on a pc there is no real reason for them to download it really because they can just stream it. It is a different story if you listen to it through the bandcamp app though which a lot of people use to stream it in their car etc - i think this restricts plays after awhile and prompts people to buy it etc so you kind of need to have the album in your collection or it gets annoying. I for one always try to support other artists I like with a few bucks or whatever in order to encourage them and let them know that I appreciate it - I think paying for it is the most direct way to help them gain confidence in themselves and their art and egg them on. Hence in a way it is not at all about them making a profit but more helping to give them a reason to keep going with it if you get my drift.
|
|
|
Post by Digol on Mar 24, 2020 4:31:47 GMT -5
I charge for any music I put up to purchase, this is mainly just a personal belief that music (and art in general) is worth money and artists should ask for it (rather than ONLY begging for donations - I don't look down on asking for donations though) - but I respect the generosity of any artists that choose to put up their music as PWYW, or for free. I don't think charging is better, just what I am comfortable with.
I get the point about streaming, but in my mind the charge is at the dividing line of convenience between "you must come to this site to listen to it" and "you now own a copy of this". It's not a big or important distinction, but that's how I see it - I do however make sure there's some added value with the purchase (even if it's a small one) i.e. the digital release 'The Faded Kingdom' comes with a second copy of the EP, ripped from tape, so you can listen to a version with a different texture if you so wish - it's not much, merely a thank you - and the tape obviously comes with a nice physical tape.
My second point is that I'm starting to put some money together to run a non-profit distro/label to put out some DS by other people. I was dismayed to some of the 'bigger' DS/DA labels don't remunerate artists to a degree I would be comfortable with - so I'm looking towards setting up a small thing where I can help people put out music in a way I perceive to be more equitable. Any money from Glomstriden releases is currently going into the pot to fund a release by someone else.
But I'm definitely not trying to make the big $$$ off my music. If you want to get rich, don't try and do it through music, and if you want to get rich through music, *definitely* don't try doing it with Dungeon Synth.
|
|
|
Post by Sorrows Realm on Mar 24, 2020 7:40:29 GMT -5
I think it should be free in the form of streaming but I think people should also pay for it, what I mean by that is streaming offers it for free but fans should try to support the artist either by making a donation/payment when they download from say bandcamp or buy a cassette, shirt, vinyl or whatever to support the artists and labels.
|
|
|
Post by demesne on Mar 26, 2020 13:50:17 GMT -5
Yes, for a number of reasons. One big reason is that if one is able to stream it, it's already free. I don't think there are many people for whom actually having downloaded the files makes much of a difference for the listening experience. So requesting $5 rather than NYP seems kind of silly to me because either way it's basically a donation, it would be like a busker not accepting anything less than $5. Good point i never really thought of it like that. If people listen to the album on a pc there is no real reason for them to download it really because they can just stream it. It is a different story if you listen to it through the bandcamp app though which a lot of people use to stream it in their car etc - i think this restricts plays after awhile and prompts people to buy it etc so you kind of need to have the album in your collection or it gets annoying. I for one always try to support other artists I like with a few bucks or whatever in order to encourage them and let them know that I appreciate it - I think paying for it is the most direct way to help them gain confidence in themselves and their art and egg them on. Hence in a way it is not at all about them making a profit but more helping to give them a reason to keep going with it if you get my drift. I like your point about it incentivizing an artist, that rings very true. I appreciate any amount as an artist and it keeps me extremely motivated to keep getting better as an artist. I feel like I am doing the same to others if I support them as well. As an aside there have been some great points made already so I will just add my own thoughts. Coming from my background of punk and DIY free music was always quite common, but I think it is ultimately up to each artist. Streaming is the main way to consume music now so I am big fan if the bandcamp NYP model. But if someone puts a ton of passion and effort into their work I have no issue with them charging what they see as it is worth.
|
|
|
Post by thekeeper on Apr 5, 2020 22:46:59 GMT -5
I get the point about streaming, but in my mind the charge is at the dividing line of convenience between "you must come to this site to listen to it" and "you now own a copy of this". It's not a big or important distinction, but that's how I see it - I do however make sure there's some added value with the purchase (even if it's a small one) i.e. the digital release 'The Faded Kingdom' comes with a second copy of the EP, ripped from tape, so you can listen to a version with a different texture if you so wish - it's not much, merely a thank you - and the tape obviously comes with a nice physical tape. I feel the same way with DRM kind of streaming services, which is why I don't use Steam for PC games. There have been numerous cases where I've regretted not downloading a DS album on bandcamp that was later on removed or changed in some major way, or even just regretting not downloading to save cover art before the artist changed it. I like to actually own the thing in some way that's a bit more tangable rather than just coming to an artist's page to stream it (I feel like more people do this on youtube that BC), even if it's just being able to download the files. I'm always worried about archival of things in this way. However, I've been pretty bad at having all my CDs ripped and my digital purchases downloaded lately because I'm out of harddrive space. I also agree with andrewwerdna in that if the music is online and playable, it's essentially already free, so the pricepoint is just a gesture to the artist, taken as the price of adding it to your BC library if you use the app or something, or being able to get the pure lossless files to save on your computer. It's incredibly easy to just record the stream of anything and save it if people really want to. And if you really wanted to, you could even just aux jack a tape player to your computer and play the BC songs straight to a tape you're recording and you've got a home bootleg if you really want a physical. It's kind of hard to coax someone into paying for an album if they don't want to when there are many other ways of hearing or downloading it. As for the download codes, I try not to use the handout ones posted online unless I want the album but not enough to pay for it. If someone wants to pay for the album, they'll do it because the DS listener-base is incredibly supportive of the artists (usually things are below $4 anyway, if not just $1), so the download code is just an easy way to have it saved in my library. Even then, I rarely take the codes if there's a chance someone else would need one more than me. Sometimes I do feel like the download codes are given out just as a way to fill out the grid below the cover though, make it seem like a real popular album that people are willing to pay for. Kind of an odd thing, but I think most of the time artists are just being nice and aren't mainly looking for the passive-promotion in that way.
|
|
|
Post by gustavojobim on Apr 17, 2020 10:07:19 GMT -5
I have mixed feelings about asking for payment to deliver a download. Most people don't download anymore; people only listen if it's on spotify; etc etc. Since late 2018 I turned to youtube videos. That platform has given me much more (attention, comments, likes, but zero cash) than what I've been getting doing only one or two audio albums per year. In the last few weeks though I have been coming back to dungeon synth, a genre I've been flirting with for 20 years as a listener and musician. And inside that niche and the heavy metal scene as a whole people always tend to appreciate the music. That's an incentive to going back to making albums. Will I charge for them though? At the moment I'm not charging, there's been a small movement of giving away work due to the covid19 quarantine all over the world. I was asking for only 2 dollars minimum price for each solo album. So. Eventually I will release a new album, but not sure if I'll ask for anything. I have a day job. I only made money from music one time, when I made an indie film soundtrack. That was cash enough for one month, in a 20 year career... There's no answer. Only personal accounts. If you want to make any livelyhood from music, author's music won't give you that. You will need to invest 95% of your energy (time, cash, etc) in other disciplines with no direct relation with music: networking, marketing, administration, being born rich.......
|
|
|
Post by altrusiangrace on Apr 17, 2020 10:28:11 GMT -5
"I remember the good old days, when we actually downloaded music files to a hard drive, not like these kids today who scan their retina and stream it to their brain chip implant."
|
|
|
Post by AndruJorj on Apr 18, 2020 18:42:17 GMT -5
I've just made the entire AUFHOCKER discography free for the next... uhh.. until... umm... I don't know. It's free right now. Get it. aufhocker.bandcamp.comI'm struggling without work and without an income right now, and it sucks. I'm sure a lot of you are, as well. The supporters of my project Aufhocker, unbeknownst to them, have helped me when I needed it the most with their contributions, and I am forever thankful for their support.
I want to return the favour to the DS community that has helped me when I needed it. So, I'm making the Aufhocker discography free for a limited time. All 32 Aufhocker releases are free right now. Spread the word for me. I don't use social media. Spread this info on Facebook or VK, please. Propagate this to wherever there are DS fans. To everyone. Fuck it, it's free. Sharing a link takes ten seconds. I'm sure some people would appreciate it. Hook them up. aufhocker.bandcamp.comβ§
|
|
|
Post by stonetroll on Apr 28, 2020 23:25:29 GMT -5
Each to their own I guess. I don't really care and I don't care for money either. I don't think there's anything wrong with charging for music but for now I've decided to keep my stuff as name your price with no minimum. If I do tapes which I probably will I'll charge a reasonable sum which might be a little over what I paid for making them, might be exactly what I paid. Don't know yet. There is no money in this anyway so I don't care that much. If people charge ridiculous sums I'll just ignore it altogether or laugh it off as silly but if it's pay what you want it makes me kind of want to pay something and support them. I can't see a reality where $3 is too much for any kind of work of art. That sounds very reasonable to me. this is what i do all my cassette releases (noise and DS) have been hand made to order and numbered. I never charge over production costs and I seem to do okay. People appreciate the sentiment of a handmade release and if people like my stuff enough to buy it the least I can do is spend my time making it just for them...it make take a little longer and product runs smaller but it seems like a better product and fans seem to be happy so yeah totally recommend a smaller run if your making physical copies
|
|
|
Post by skirmisher on May 4, 2020 1:40:17 GMT -5
Each to their own I guess. I don't really care and I don't care for money either. I don't think there's anything wrong with charging for music but for now I've decided to keep my stuff as name your price with no minimum. If I do tapes which I probably will I'll charge a reasonable sum which might be a little over what I paid for making them, might be exactly what I paid. Don't know yet. There is no money in this anyway so I don't care that much. If people charge ridiculous sums I'll just ignore it altogether or laugh it off as silly but if it's pay what you want it makes me kind of want to pay something and support them. I can't see a reality where $3 is too much for any kind of work of art. That sounds very reasonable to me. this is what i do all my cassette releases (noise and DS) have been hand made to order and numbered. I never charge over production costs and I seem to do okay. People appreciate the sentiment of a handmade release and if people like my stuff enough to buy it the least I can do is spend my time making it just for them...it make take a little longer and product runs smaller but it seems like a better product and fans seem to be happy so yeah totally recommend a smaller run if your making physical copies Yeah I actually did end up making 20 tapes of both my albums. It was a fun process. Still got some left but haven't even mentioned it here since I don't like making a fuss and also shipping is incredibly expensive from where I live.
|
|