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Post by automatedhero on Nov 22, 2023 5:50:15 GMT -5
FM synth? Does it please you milord? What are your favourite examples in genre?
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Post by Damage Cloud on Nov 23, 2023 0:57:22 GMT -5
Quest master uses them a ton. if its a type of synthesis thats ever been put in a toy keyboard, it works with dungeon synth. especially with how often fm synths are used to "recreate" acoustic instruments. I dont really consider this true dungeon synth, but I made this ep almost entirely with dexed (other than whats obviously not): www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLHnt2x5u_4 |
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Post by automatedhero on Nov 23, 2023 8:09:13 GMT -5
fm was of course super popular in the eighties with the DX7 and so I would consider it part of the tradtional sound palette. More importantly it is a good sound source, depending on your tasates of course. Eno uses it a lot and was one of the few who could really program the DX7. Moreover the sound was very popular in early video game sound chip design.
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Post by andrewwerdna on Nov 23, 2023 22:43:46 GMT -5
I bought a Yamaha PSS-140 from a thrift store before I ever bought a proper synth or keyboard, so I have fond memories of tinkering with that sort of primitive FM sound and trying to get dungeon atmospheres out of it. I've tinkered with Dexed here and there, ever since learning about it from this thread (and Garvalf – The Hollow Earth is still the first album that comes to mind when I think "FM DS"), but I still can't really wrap my head around how to program that thing apart from just arbitrarily tweaking stuff. But back to the PSS-140 type stuff, there's a plugin called Chipsynth PortaFM I've had in the back of my mind for a while, messed with the 4-minute demo a handful of times and found it to be very cool and intuitive. Basically it is like those old Yamaha PortaSound keyboards except that you can make your own patches with it, and there are some more bells and whistles. This thread reminded me of that, and I was happy to find that they're having a black friday deal right now, only $15. I also am thinking about getting that Chipsynth MD which does the same thing but for Sega Genesis type sounds. |
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Post by Pilgrim's Shadow on Nov 28, 2023 1:55:07 GMT -5
I always think FM synthesis is kind of the default tool to create DS sounds, Right? I mean, isn't all the old keyboard sounds are FM presets? I've heard good things about Dexed, but man it's a difficult layout. In general, i find FM kind of sneakily difficult. Not that it's theory is hard to understand, but i find it requires a lot of subtlety, and "sweet-spot tracking". A good tip I've heard is two start with only two operators; one modulator and one carrier. That's where i am now, but I'm there two long  |
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Post by Damage Cloud on Nov 28, 2023 12:16:06 GMT -5
i think romplers and phase distortion synths are the default, but fm is definitely mixed in there edit: any soundfont is a rompler, but honestly phase distortion is harder to find outside those old keyboards. this is the plugin i use www.pluginboutique.com/product/4-Synth/1158-VirtualCZ |
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Post by nayrb on Dec 29, 2023 11:45:48 GMT -5
I used a mix of patches I made and some presets from ChipSynth PortaFM, Oxe FM, DDX10, and Dexed (I think; I don't actually recall if it made the final cut or not, off the top of my head). I find the two-operator variety easiest to dial in, of course, but I'm working on advancing a bit.
Quick thoughts on all of them:
ChipSynth PortaFM is pretty excellent, and the manual is very useful, even for understanding and using other FM synths. The one hurdle I'm struggling to get over is the modulation matrix, which is rather idiosyncratic. As far as I'm concerned, I'd love to own all the other ChipSynths, but I want to get a handle on that step-based modulation matrix first. Otherwise, it's very satisfying to dial in patches with; and it has a few different chip and DAC modes, which all effect the sound and offer different features. Its dirty, noisy sound is one thing that sets it apart from many other FM synths out there.
DDX10 is the most simplistic of the bunch. It's great for mallets, metallic plinks, and weird, blooming metallic pads, as heard in the track above.
Oxe FM isn't too hard to understand after a little fiddling, but it's hard on the eyes. It has a number of fine presets and even a built in filter and noise generator.
Dexed comes with a ton of presets, and it even has three output res modes, including a nice lo-fi OPL option. It has more algorithm options than the other two, but its major drawback is the weird envelope generator design. Otherwise, its interface isn't that much trickier than the others, once you take the time to get to know it. Here's a great video explaining it.
I've begun fiddling around with a free FM synth called Exakt Lite, which really does seem to have the most user-friendly interface for a multi (more than two) operator FM synth. |
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Post by automatedhero on Dec 29, 2023 15:34:43 GMT -5
Yes, I can hear the FM bass sounds you're using The plogue stuff is pretty good, but I have all sorts of problems getting it to cooperate with my machine. I have fm8 but I mainly use the op6 vst and the arturia Synclavier vst, as well as samples. FM is perfect for that eighties vibe. Tangerine Dream used a TON of fm during that period. |
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Post by nayrb on Dec 29, 2023 23:33:15 GMT -5
Yes, I can hear the FM bass sounds you're using The plogue stuff is pretty good, but I have all sorts of problems getting it to cooperate with my machine. I have fm8 but I mainly use the op6 vst and the arturia Synclavier vst, as well as samples. FM is perfect for that eighties vibe. Tangerine Dream used a TON of fm during that period.
Funny you should mention, because TD's 80s stuff is some of my favorite music, and it definitely inspired me on these tracks. Not that I'd suggest I'm at their level, or that it sounds like their stuff; but I was definitely channeling it. 80s vibe is a good vibe! Don't forget all the fine analog, subtractive, and other types of oscillator-based modulation (like ring, and pulse width) that are prime examples of the 80s sound, though. Try out PG-8X for a wonderful analog 80s experience!
I always wanted FM8, but I now have so much FM stuff, paid and free, that I'm not sure I need it at the moment. Maybe down the road. Looks like a really comprehensive synth.
Surprised the Plogue stuff gives you trouble. I've actually found it to be some of the more stable and reliable software out there. Guess it's just one of those things... I initially looked into ChipSynth PortaFM after encountering the soundtrack to a recent game called Skald: Against the Black Priory, and going on a search for emulations of that particular Yamaha chip.
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Post by automatedhero on Dec 31, 2023 11:32:08 GMT -5
Yes, I can hear the FM bass sounds you're using The plogue stuff is pretty good, but I have all sorts of problems getting it to cooperate with my machine. I have fm8 but I mainly use the op6 vst and the artuSynclavier vst, as well as samples. FM is perfect for that eighties vibe. Tangerine Dream used a TON of fm during that period.
Funny you should mention, because TD's 80s stuff is some of my favorite music, and it definitely inspired me on these tracks. Not that I'd suggest I'm at their level, or that it sounds like their stuff; but I was definitely channeling it. 80s vibe is a good vibe! Don't forget all the fine analog, subtractive, and other types of oscillator-based modulation (like ring, and pulse width) that are prime examples of the 80s sound, though. Try out PG-8X for a wonderful analog 80s experience!
I always wanted FM8, but I now have so much FM stuff, paid and free, that I'm not sure I need it at the moment. Maybe down the road. Looks like a really comprehensive synth.
Surprised the Plogue stuff gives you trouble. I've actually found it to be some of the more stable and reliable software out there. Guess it's just one of those things... I initially looked into ChipSynth PortaFM after encountering the soundtrack to a recent game called Skald: Against the Black Priory, and going on a search for emulations of that particular Yamaha chip.
TD did some good stuff in the eighties. Not all of it. But their super early stuff didn't really work for me. Optical Race and even Lily on the Beach have good tracks on them. Tyger is great, aside from the vocals, which aren't awful. They just don't fit. ymmv. FM8 sounds great, but I don't use it that much. I don't like the way it does envelopes. The op6 has a lot of options for waveforms, not just fm but effects as well. It also has user defined algorithms like fm8. Dexxed is decent but i moved to other stuff before getting to grips with it. You can get cheap license transfers for the arturia dx7 which still sounds really good. I have the plogue dx7 emulation. I can get it to work and it sounds decent, but i have to fiddle with the basic sound software on my computer and i'd really rather not, I also don't need to. The Chipsynth is really good, but I can use other software to make the sound lo fi and lo sample rate. THeir chipcrusher app is really good but i can't afford it right now. pure ear candy. |
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Post by nayrb on Dec 31, 2023 23:54:58 GMT -5
Funny you should mention, because TD's 80s stuff is some of my favorite music, and it definitely inspired me on these tracks. Not that I'd suggest I'm at their level, or that it sounds like their stuff; but I was definitely channeling it. 80s vibe is a good vibe! Don't forget all the fine analog, subtractive, and other types of oscillator-based modulation (like ring, and pulse width) that are prime examples of the 80s sound, though. Try out PG-8X for a wonderful analog 80s experience!
I always wanted FM8, but I now have so much FM stuff, paid and free, that I'm not sure I need it at the moment. Maybe down the road. Looks like a really comprehensive synth.
Surprised the Plogue stuff gives you trouble. I've actually found it to be some of the more stable and reliable software out there. Guess it's just one of those things... I initially looked into ChipSynth PortaFM after encountering the soundtrack to a recent game called Skald: Against the Black Priory, and going on a search for emulations of that particular Yamaha chip.
TD did some good stuff in the eighties. Not all of it. But their super early stuff didn't really work for me. Optical Race and even Lily on the Beach have good tracks on them. Tyger is great, aside from the vocals, which aren't awful. They just don't fit. ymmv. FM8 sounds great, but I don't use it that much. I don't like the way it does envelopes. The op6 has a lot of options for waveforms, not just fm but effects as well. It also has user defined algorithms like fm8. Dexxed is decent but i moved to other stuff before getting to grips with it. You can get cheap license transfers for the arturia dx7 which still sounds really good. I have the plogue dx7 emulation. I can get it to work and it sounds decent, but i have to fiddle with the basic sound software on my computer and i'd really rather not, I also don't need to. The Chipsynth is really good, but I can use other software to make the sound lo fi and lo sample rate. THeir chipcrusher app is really good but i can't afford it right now. pure ear candy.
I love most of the early 80s stuff: Tangram, Exit, Hyperborea (especially), White Eagle, and in fact I love Optical Race, which I think is really strong. I haven't checked out Tyger yet, but I'm not usually too interested in TD's vocal-style stuff. I really love Underwater Sunlight, too.
One thing I've noticed about FM soft-synths is that they often neglect the basic, familty stuff, like a filter on the output and some expression control; you can't even do a simple MIDI link in your DAW for some of those features on some synths--it's like the developers were trying to perpetuate the "FM = weird and different" stereotype. I can do FM with some of my other synths, like Synthmaster2, and they also have those areas covered, which is nice. ExaktLite is pretty great, from what I've gathered from my recent delvings. It's got a filter on the output and even an LFO; but it still doesn't have every area covered. It has a lot of options but is also limited in how those options are applied (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). My general, overarching takeaway from all synth experience is that each is a sum of its parts and will always have some strengths and weaknesses in terms of what options it has available.
I still want to spend more time with Oxe FM and maybe find a better skin for it than the default, with regard to visibility. It has common-sense envelopes (for the most part), and is pretty free in terms of the types of routing you can do (i.e., you're not limited by a set of pre-defined algorithms). It might actually be one of the better FM synth options in the freeware realm.
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Post by automatedhero on Jan 7, 2024 6:46:40 GMT -5
I used a mix of patches I made and some presets from ChipSynth PortaFM, Oxe FM, DDX10, and Dexed (I think; I don't actually recall if it made the final cut or not, off the top of my head). I find the two-operator variety easiest to dial in, of course, but I'm working on advancing a bit.
Quick thoughts on all of them:
ChipSynth PortaFM is pretty excellent, and the manual is very useful, even for understanding and using other FM synths. The one hurdle I'm struggling to get over is the modulation matrix, which is rather idiosyncratic. As far as I'm concerned, I'd love to own all the other ChipSynths, but I want to get a handle on that step-based modulation matrix first. Otherwise, it's very satisfying to dial in patches with; and it has a few different chip and DAC modes, which all effect the sound and offer different features. Its dirty, noisy sound is one thing that sets it apart from many other FM synths out there.
DDX10 is the most simplistic of the bunch. It's great for mallets, metallic plinks, and weird, blooming metallic pads, as heard in the track above.
Oxe FM isn't too hard to understand after a little fiddling, but it's hard on the eyes. It has a number of fine presets and even a built in filter and noise generator.
Dexed comes with a ton of presets, and it even has three output res modes, including a nice lo-fi OPL option. It has more algorithm options than the other two, but its major drawback is the weird envelope generator design. Otherwise, its interface isn't that much trickier than the others, once you take the time to get to know it. Here's a great video explaining it.
I've begun fiddling around with a free FM synth called Exakt Lite, which really does seem to have the most user-friendly interface for a multi (more than two) operator FM synth. DExxed is fine once you understand how envelopes work in the dx7 it emulates. Most synths with cross modulation do fm because that's just the same setup as a two operator synth. |
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Post by Texas Dungeon Synth on Jan 15, 2024 23:01:51 GMT -5
Yes. Ohh, yes
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Post by AndruJorj on Feb 19, 2024 16:11:50 GMT -5
I like FM synthesis. The Yamaha DX7, and to a lesser extent the DX9, are excellent FM synths for crafting ambient sounds. As long as there are enough oscillators, you can achieve very complex sounds. Anything from sharp and bright Harpsichords to dark and soft drone pads, and everything between. I have used FM synths in many of the Aufhocker releases, more often in the earlier releases than the more recent ones. One example of such a release that heavily relies on FM synthesis is 'Lost Among The Ruins', which was recorded 'live in the studio', as they say. On that album I used only a Yamaha DX9 (and a Roland SH-1000 from 1973, the first compact synthesizer produced in Japan). aufhocker.bandcamp.com/album/lost-among-the-ruins |
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Post by goldofthetigers on Aug 4, 2024 22:15:00 GMT -5
Ah, this thread was hidden from me for too long. I adore FM synthesis, it can create such eerie tones but also sounds of great beauty. For me the effort and learning required to get there makes it so much better. My first synthesizer was a PSS-480 I got for $10 at a thrift store. The speakers were crackly, it was missing the battery cover and the power supply barely stuck in it so it'd turn off and on with the slightest touch. Also, I didn't realize it until I saw another one, but it does not in fact have aesthetic white lines running throughout the synth, mine was just incredibly dusty. But it was awesome, and nowadays programs you can use to edit parameters that were hidden on the hardware. Funny story, I thought it was gone forever after I moved out, I swore I sold it, but it was actually in my grandparents' basement and this past spring we found it again.
Agreed with people saying to start with 2 operators, there's a lot of good sounds you can make with only two. You can mess with the ratios to create cool dissonances and harmonies. Here's a patch I like, it's on the PSS-480 but I think you could make it on a TX81Z (the PSS line is a simplified version of it, on top of sine waves you can choose square, sawtooth, half-square etc.). With some effort you could get something similar in another FM synth. The patch is an icy bell followed by a whining pad raised by a fifth. I think of it as an ice palace kind of sound. Add a dash of chorus and reverb to taste. Apologies in advance for the incomprehensible notation!
MODULATOR
Freq Mult: 2; Coarse Detune: 0; Fine Detune: 0; AR 13; D1R 11; D2R 6; D1L 15; RR 4; SRR 2; SINE TABLE: Square; AM Disabled; R. Key Scale: 0; L. Key Scale-Lo: 1; L.Key Scale-Hi: 0; Mod Level: 65
Carrier:
Freq Mult: 3; Coarse Detune: 0; Fine Detune: 0; AR 53; D1R 23; D2R 6; D1L 15; RR 6; SRR 4; SINE TABLE: Sine; AM Disabled; R. Key Scale: 0; L. Key Scale-Lo: 0; L.Key Scale-Hi: 0; Total Level: 78
FEEDBACK: 6; PM Sens: 4; AM Sens: 0; VIB Delay; 0; Vibrato: Yes; Sustain: Yes
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGukgJ2-0OI
Jul 22, 2024 13:55:54 GMT -5
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGukgJ2-0OI
Jul 22, 2024 13:55:54 GMT -5
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