Dungeon Noise

[thekeeper]

This is an area that's growing really slowly but interests me greatly.

Hardly any artists currently fit into this description, but I feel that it slowly start to grow as we get more philosophical about what Dungeon Synth is in spirit and what it does for us. I think dungeon noise is a natural extremity of DS. A lot of DS already has a noise element to it, particularly the tape hiss and recording noise of the 90s era tapes. I think most would agree that this lo-fi nature gives it a particular texture and atmosphere, and I've seen descriptors like 'dusty', 'ancient', and others applied to this kind of obscure feel. So about we bring this element much more to the forefront?

There's a definitely non-human aspect to a lot of noise. Some noise makes an effort to be very human (tribal pulses, varied use of the voice), others come off as very alien or deliberately alternate to traditional 'music'. To me, it sounds like there could be a great philosophical mesh between the alternate-fantasy-reality escapism of DS and the strict negation aspect of noise. What does everyone else think? I'm not sure how many noise interested DS listeners there are, but lots of us are interested in weird dark ambient and black ambient stuff already, so I'd thought this would have some good discussion potential.

Dungeon Noise that I'm currently aware of:
Ranseur (largely atypical odd DS with a hiss background as a deliberate element to the music)
Lost Chateau of Montague (more noise centric, but you can pick out those messy synth elements that the noise is created from)
Stone Witch (split with vax-) (less so dungeon noise, just dungeon themed, interesting nonethless)
Einhorn (Tyrannus project, direct mesh between DS and noise)

[Tyrannus]

I was actually considering making a thread on this very subject. Ranseur is very cool for sure and I found those other projects interesting too. I think noise has a lot of underutilized/underappreciated atmospheric qualities that are really highlighted when accompanied by a synthesizer. My friends and I have discussed how some noise, especially harsh noise wall, is almost just like a harsher version of ambient, but it can achieve a similar effect. I find just general synth+noise music interesting, and often very beautiful. I am a Lake of Burning Orchids is a project that comes to mind in this category, as well as a lot of death industrial material. Noise can like obscure and distort the synth work it's combined with, and I think that kind of fuzzy obscurity works well with dungeon synth.

EDIT: This topic actually came up on /mu/ a few weeks ago and someone had posted this:


Not sure it quite counts but it's cool

[thekeeper]

I would agree with the ambient spectrum placement. I think HNW could sonically be on the same spectrum; philosophically/conceptually, I think it kind of stands on it's own since it's supposed to be embodied nihilism as much as it can be without being nothing at all (you may have seen the Harsh Noise Wally comic strip where someone jokes that total nihilism can't be made it into music and that HNW is paradoxical). Interestingly, I've seen Drone Noise Wall and Ambient Noise Wall thrown around in the past few months to describe non-harsh walls. In terms of walls, I had a Dungeon Wall idea a while ago that I haven't produced yet since I need a loop pedal for it to come to fruition and I don't have one (meaning there will be a small repetition loop that could be argued is not exactly a 'wall'). I did however make a DS/neofolk tapeloop that I may release some time down the line.

I suppose, as specific or subjective as genre definitions can be, it may be difficult to categorize Dungeon Noise (or Walls) since there already exists much noise utilizing synthesizers, likely even the synth sounds familiar to DS. It would have to still embody the recognizable essence of DS that I don't feel the need to describe since we all kind of 'get it'. There are specific synth sounds in DS, I suppose, but defining something based on these subtleties combined with abrasive noise is difficult. I think presentation is fairly important in DS (but by no means dictatorial). Is something DS if it has many of the same 90s Roland synth instruments and the kinds of simple melancholic melodies but presents itself with use of pulp sci-fi imagery? Someone could probably argue so, but realistically it's not. The 'Dungeon' presentation is somewhat necessary in the stylistic definition. Take the Stone Witch/vax- split, for example. There are some synth based moments in the noise but as a whole isn't not really Dungeon Synth at all. Perhaps it's 5% DS and 95% noise. But the presentation really draws you as a DS release, doesn't it? Would this be 'Dungeon Noise' per se, or merely 'dungeon-themed noise'?

Levi posted this Grey Wolves track on his Dungeon Grimoire blog some time ago. I wouldn't particularly say it's a DS track exactly, but the sounds and aesthetic definitely fit within the boundaries.



Edit: I love Ungl'Unl'Rrhl'Chchch. It's one of the Trollmann guys. I have the tape, actually.

[Tyrannus]

I think dungeon noise it doesn't constitute its own genre/subgenre partially because it's not something that's defined by sound alone. I think the visual dungeon aesthetic is critical in this case, otherwise it could be some other type of synth noise. One album I need to give a shout out to isn't really part of the dungeon noise style but really inspired me.

This is I guess a compilation technically but it's The Fallen Years from Drowning the Light.  The juxtapositions of beautiful DS-esque synth pieces and buzzing noisy black metal is part of many black metal releases but this one in particular has always stood out to me.  I first heard this compilation many years ago and so it clearly took some time for the inspiration to really unfold.  But I think a lot of these lo-fi black metal releases with synth portions achieve a similar feeling to dungeon noise.

[chaucerianmyth]

Man, I'm glad I came upon this thread. I really hope Dungeon Noise becomes more prevalent within the genre. I think the Tyrannus project was the first I had heard, and it definitely got me interested. Gonna be checking out a lot of these links later. I think one great thing about Dungeon Synth is that it is a genre which can very easily subsume other genres, and to me personally, incorporating Noise seems like a lateral move.

[Witherer]

Jan 29, 2017 17:49:20 GMT -5 Tyrannus said:

Not sure it quite counts but it's cool

This is excellent.

The bringing of external aspects and approaches into Dungeon Synth is a little more compelling personally than exporting DS tenets into other genres. A Noisy DS (rather than a Dungeon Noise) sound has the advantage of the conceptual elements and tradition where for example a harsh abrasive-regal-fantasy-PE sound might be more challenging, although not unrewarding, to accomplish and convey explicitly. Rather than going directly from synths in to electronics, there is also a more interesting existing natural genre wandering route for this relationship to bleed over and bring back elements via its black metal history through BM's folk influence into neo/apocalyptic-folk to industrial to noise. That said, I think DS has always been comfortable in the company of a variety of genres. Mortiis was on CMI after all and that could be used as an inspirational primitive precedent in a way to continue expansion and intermingling of any of the sounds represented there.

[Tyrannus]

I've been poking around a bit more and had some new successes:
1. On Unknown Paths

This is some pretty spooky stuff, and you can listen to it here.  

2. Blood Tower

Very dark, atmospheric material right here.  Check it out.

3. Other stuff on moonworshipper


Same bandcamp as Blood Tower, check it out.

Let me know if you think any of these are neato and definitely if you find more cool stuff, share it!

[thekeeper]

I love Moonworshipper. I have the Blood Tower tape but I missed the Cult Play tape, that sold out rather quickly. That first release is interesting, good find.

[ranseur]

Man you guys don't know how excited I am that this is becoming a thing. Haven't heard all of these posted because some are new but I'll check them out. To be totally honest it's been kind of shitty being the only one doing this with ranseur, I've been hoping other people would try it out and do it more extreme.

If any of you guys are curious I did start ranseur with the goal of mixing noise and dungeon synth but I always wanted to lean heavily on the dungeon synth side. It might have been a bad decision not to promote it that way but I kind of wanted people to figure it out for themselves. The current mindset that any dungeon synth that isn't polished is automatically bad has really hurt interest in the weirder ds in general. Not that I personally aimed to please everyone, but I felt kind of frustrated hearing people describe my stuff as regressive when really i was trying to be innovative. Im just hoping the scene is big enough for some variation.

And please do a dungeon wall, that would kill.

[Tyrannus]

Jan 31, 2017 3:33:09 GMT -5 ranseur said:

Man you guys don't know how excited I am that this is becoming a thing. Haven't heard all of these posted because some are new but I'll check them out. To be totally honest it's been kind of shitty being the only one doing this with ranseur, I've been hoping other people would try it out and do it more extreme.

If any of you guys are curious I did start ranseur with the goal of mixing noise and dungeon synth but I always wanted to lean heavily on the dungeon synth side. It might have been a bad decision not to promote it that way but I kind of wanted people to figure it out for themselves. The current mindset that any dungeon synth that isn't polished is automatically bad has really hurt interest in the weirder ds in general. Not that I personally aimed to please everyone, but I felt kind of frustrated hearing people describe my stuff as regressive when really i was trying to be innovative. Im just hoping the scene is big enough for some variation.

And please do a dungeon wall, that would kill.

A lot of your synthwork seems a bit nontraditional so I'm surprised people thought your music was regressive.  Also I can't imagine how it must've felt being like the only one doing it...even now it feels a bit suffocating/restricting being in such a small niche and not having a lot of examples of stuff in the style to turn to.  When I first get into a type of music I try to listen to as much of it as I can, and it has sucked that there hasn't really been much dungeon noise for me to do that with.  Ranseur probably is where I've been turning the most.

[chaucerianmyth]

Jan 31, 2017 3:33:09 GMT -5 ranseur said:

Man you guys don't know how excited I am that this is becoming a thing. Haven't heard all of these posted because some are new but I'll check them out. To be totally honest it's been kind of shitty being the only one doing this with ranseur, I've been hoping other people would try it out and do it more extreme.

If any of you guys are curious I did start ranseur with the goal of mixing noise and dungeon synth but I always wanted to lean heavily on the dungeon synth side. It might have been a bad decision not to promote it that way but I kind of wanted people to figure it out for themselves. The current mindset that any dungeon synth that isn't polished is automatically bad has really hurt interest in the weirder ds in general. Not that I personally aimed to please everyone, but I felt kind of frustrated hearing people describe my stuff as regressive when really i was trying to be innovative. Im just hoping the scene is big enough for some variation.

And please do a dungeon wall, that would kill.

Man, the stuff you do is awesome. It was actually you and Tyrannus' Einhorn project that inspired me to start dabbling in Dungeon Noise for my next album. I really think the two genres go very well together. To say new Dungeon Synth should not be raw seems counter intuitive to me, as it limits certain kinds of innovations (Dungeion Noise Wall, anyone?). 

[Tyrannus]

Jan 31, 2017 10:05:23 GMT -5 chaucerianmyth said:

Jan 31, 2017 3:33:09 GMT -5 ranseur said:

Man you guys don't know how excited I am that this is becoming a thing. Haven't heard all of these posted because some are new but I'll check them out. To be totally honest it's been kind of shitty being the only one doing this with ranseur, I've been hoping other people would try it out and do it more extreme.

If any of you guys are curious I did start ranseur with the goal of mixing noise and dungeon synth but I always wanted to lean heavily on the dungeon synth side. It might have been a bad decision not to promote it that way but I kind of wanted people to figure it out for themselves. The current mindset that any dungeon synth that isn't polished is automatically bad has really hurt interest in the weirder ds in general. Not that I personally aimed to please everyone, but I felt kind of frustrated hearing people describe my stuff as regressive when really i was trying to be innovative. Im just hoping the scene is big enough for some variation.

And please do a dungeon wall, that would kill.

Man, the stuff you do is awesome. It was actually you and Tyrannus' Einhorn project that inspired me to start dabbling in Dungeon Noise for my next album. I really think the two genres go very well together. To say new Dungeon Synth should not be raw seems counter intuitive to me, as it limits certain kinds of innovations (Dungeion Noise Wall, anyone?). 

Man I am getting inordinately excited about the prospect of Chaucerian dungeon noise.  I'm very eager to see level of artistry and mastery you put into your work applied to this noisier realm.  

As for all this talk of a Dungeon Wall, I'm really tempted.  I mean I love HNW, and have made a bunch, like this, but I'm not sure if I do or do not want to be the one to combine the two.  The noise I've been using for Einhorn has been a bit more dynamic and I like that aspect, because it's like another thing to pay attention to outside of the synths themselves and I think this might be less the case in a wall form.  I use no input mixing to make my Einhorn noise so I intend to stick with that for the time being.  I feel like someone needs to make these walls though...

[ranseur]

Jan 31, 2017 10:18:34 GMT -5 Tyrannus said:

Jan 31, 2017 10:05:23 GMT -5 chaucerianmyth said:

Man, the stuff you do is awesome. It was actually you and Tyrannus' Einhorn project that inspired me to start dabbling in Dungeon Noise for my next album. I really think the two genres go very well together. To say new Dungeon Synth should not be raw seems counter intuitive to me, as it limits certain kinds of innovations (Dungeion Noise Wall, anyone?). 

Man I am getting inordinately excited about the prospect of Chaucerian dungeon noise.  I'm very eager to see level of artistry and mastery you put into your work applied to this noisier realm.  

As for all this talk of a Dungeon Wall, I'm really tempted.  I mean I love HNW, and have made a bunch, like this, but I'm not sure if I do or do not want to be the one to combine the two.  The noise I've been using for Einhorn has been a bit more dynamic and I like that aspect, because it's like another thing to pay attention to outside of the synths themselves and I think this might be less the case in a wall form.  I use no input mixing to make my Einhorn noise so I intend to stick with that for the time being.  I feel like someone needs to make these walls though...

Glad you guys are digging it man. I'm also excited about a noisier chaucerian myth, that could be crazy. I'm also not sure I'd do a dungeon wall noise record either, thekeeper should do it for sure. Something with clattering noise might be in order though, I'm a huge z'ev fan. There's really a lot of directions this could go in. Saw Brighter Death Now not too long ago and I was hoping they'd do the song with mortiis on synth but they mostly do the harsher songs now.

Another one you guys might be interested in is thiss, a noise winter synth project from John Wood who used to run the winter synth blog. It's more on the ambient side of the spectrum. thiss

[thekeeper]

Jan 31, 2017 12:11:03 GMT -5 ranseur said:

Jan 31, 2017 10:18:34 GMT -5 Tyrannus said:

Man I am getting inordinately excited about the prospect of Chaucerian dungeon noise.  I'm very eager to see level of artistry and mastery you put into your work applied to this noisier realm.  

As for all this talk of a Dungeon Wall, I'm really tempted.  I mean I love HNW, and have made a bunch, like this, but I'm not sure if I do or do not want to be the one to combine the two.  The noise I've been using for Einhorn has been a bit more dynamic and I like that aspect, because it's like another thing to pay attention to outside of the synths themselves and I think this might be less the case in a wall form.  I use no input mixing to make my Einhorn noise so I intend to stick with that for the time being.  I feel like someone needs to make these walls though...

Glad you guys are digging it man. I'm also excited about a noisier chaucerian myth, that could be crazy. I'm also not sure I'd do a dungeon wall noise record either, thekeeper should do it for sure. Something with clattering noise might be in order though, I'm a huge z'ev fan. There's really a lot of directions this could go in. Saw Brighter Death Now not too long ago and I was hoping they'd do the song with mortiis on synth but they mostly do the harsher songs now.

Another one you guys might be interested in is thiss, a noise winter synth project from John Wood who used to run the winter synth blog. It's more on the ambient side of the spectrum. thiss

I will likely do the dungeon wall eventually, just need the gear I'd want to use. My noise project, if anyone's interested. I'd make a different project for this. I have it mentally planned but that's about it. I actually recorded a couple 'field recording wall' tracks that were originally going to be used for the dungeon wall thing, but I'm thinking I may work them into a Beauty Academy release (and speaking of Field Recording Wall, Fairy Ring is pretty kool). I used to categorize HNW more fluidly than I do now, which is probably why all of these semi-sarcastic 'x noise wall' terms starting appearing since there was a lot that weren't technically 'walls'. I think defining HNW has to stick to the Vomir definition: "no ideas, no change, no development". Just wall. There are a lot of things tagged HNW that have quite a bit of variation (some of my own stuff even), but realistically don't fit into the strict boundaries of a 'wall'. But who cares, do whatever.

Thiss! Classic bandcamp days. Actually, I remember not being that into this, and I'm not sure about it still. Seems like it was composed too quickly.

[Tyrannus]

I mean you can always do your looping in a DAW if you're just talking about that gear. But if you don't want to do that, my friend actually just got a Boss one for about $100 which isn't too bad imo. It might be an option. I'm wondering what gear I need...I just got this odd Interstellar Orbiter pedal that I'm still getting the hang of so I think I'm probably set for now haha