Dungeon Noise

[Tyrannus]

Jan 30, 2017 10:36:04 GMT -5 thekeeper said:

I would agree with the ambient spectrum placement. I think HNW could sonically be on the same spectrum; philosophically/conceptually, I think it kind of stands on it's own since it's supposed to be embodied nihilism as much as it can be without being nothing at all (you may have seen the Harsh Noise Wally comic strip where someone jokes that total nihilism can't be made it into music and that HNW is paradoxical). Interestingly, I've seen Drone Noise Wall and Ambient Noise Wall thrown around in the past few months to describe non-harsh walls. In terms of walls, I had a Dungeon Wall idea a while ago that I haven't produced yet since I need a loop pedal for it to come to fruition and I don't have one (meaning there will be a small repetition loop that could be argued is not exactly a 'wall'). I did however make a DS/neofolk tapeloop that I may release some time down the line.

I suppose, as specific or subjective as genre definitions can be, it may be difficult to categorize Dungeon Noise (or Walls) since there already exists much noise utilizing synthesizers, likely even the synth sounds familiar to DS. It would have to still embody the recognizable essence of DS that I don't feel the need to describe since we all kind of 'get it'. There are specific synth sounds in DS, I suppose, but defining something based on these subtleties combined with abrasive noise is difficult. I think presentation is fairly important in DS (but by no means dictatorial). Is something DS if it has many of the same 90s Roland synth instruments and the kinds of simple melancholic melodies but presents itself with use of pulp sci-fi imagery? Someone could probably argue so, but realistically it's not. The 'Dungeon' presentation is somewhat necessary in the stylistic definition. Take the Stone Witch/vax- split, for example. There are some synth based moments in the noise but as a whole isn't not really Dungeon Synth at all. Perhaps it's 5% DS and 95% noise. But the presentation really draws you as a DS release, doesn't it? Would this be 'Dungeon Noise' per se, or merely 'dungeon-themed noise'?

Levi posted this Grey Wolves track on his Dungeon Grimoire blog some time ago. I wouldn't particularly say it's a DS track exactly, but the sounds and aesthetic definitely fit within the boundaries.



Edit: I love Ungl'Unl'Rrhl'Chchch. It's one of the Trollmann guys. I have the tape, actually.

I knew there were some Atrax Morgue songs I wanted to post in here but I couldn't think of which ones and then forgot about it until someone posted some atrax in the facebook group.

[Tyrannus]

This is pretty cool.  Pretty interesting synth ambient with some noisy black metal style guitar business happening in the background.  Figured it might be of interest 

[birriegoat]

While this release is more along the lines of Dark Ambient, I think it treads the borders of "dungeon noise" and is a very enjoyable listen.

Ulwhednar - Withatten 1892 (Northern Electronics)

[thekeeper]

Apr 8, 2017 14:51:38 GMT -5 birriegoat said:

While this release is more along the lines of Dark Ambient, I think it treads the borders of "dungeon noise" and is a very enjoyable listen.

Ulwhednar - Withatten 1892 (Northern Electronics)

This is ridiculous. Of course it goes for $40 on discogs now. Cover art is really pleasing.

[Tyrannus]

Apr 8, 2017 14:51:38 GMT -5 birriegoat said:

While this release is more along the lines of Dark Ambient, I think it treads the borders of "dungeon noise" and is a very enjoyable listen.

Ulwhednar - Withatten 1892 (Northern Electronics)

Oh thanks for reminding me of this!  I stumbled upon it in January but totally forgot about it.  I love this art style on here

[balbulus]

I'm one of the lucky few who managed to snag a copy of that Ulwhednar tape when it first came out, it's excellent. I just missed out on the T shirt though, that artwork looked great in white on black.

Their other releases are more techno-orientated, but are worth checking out if that floats your boat, as is the rest of the Northern Electronics roster.

[Tyrannus]

Y'all might wanna hear this:
varsas.bandcamp.com/album/hull-ms-r

[Deleted]

I feel like most of the 'noisy' elements in the DS is indirect and accidental. They're two polar opposite genres, both in terms of sound and aesthetics. DS is a very 'escapist' form of art inspired by fantasy, imaginative dream worlds, myth, history, etc. Noise and it's related genres (power electronics, industrial) are very 'down to earth' and typically deal with political and corporeal topics. That being said, I adore both genres.

[ranseur]

Apr 19, 2017 4:38:49 GMT -5 @ancientrecollections said:

I feel like most of the 'noisy' elements in the DS is indirect and accidental. They're two polar opposite genres, both in terms of sound and aesthetics. DS is a very 'escapist' form of art inspired by fantasy, imaginative dream worlds, myth, history, etc. Noise and it's related genres (power electronics, industrial) are very 'down to earth' and typically deal with political and corporeal topics. That being said, I adore both genres.

Yeah but harsh noise wall is probably the most isolationist or escapist style there is, and a lot of us mixing ds with noise are taking that angle.

[Deleted]

I instantly thought of this track. Far from dungeon noise, but that faint depressive synth humming in the background starting @ around 2:32 is such an awesome contrast to the rough, pulsating synths that are right up front.

[Tyrannus]

Apr 19, 2017 4:38:49 GMT -5 @ancientrecollections said:

I feel like most of the 'noisy' elements in the DS is indirect and accidental. They're two polar opposite genres, both in terms of sound and aesthetics. DS is a very 'escapist' form of art inspired by fantasy, imaginative dream worlds, myth, history, etc. Noise and it's related genres (power electronics, industrial) are very 'down to earth' and typically deal with political and corporeal topics. That being said, I adore both genres.

I don't think noise specifically has to occupy the realm of the down to earth, per se. It can be dreamy in like a dissociative, jarring way. As was mentioned, HNW especially can take on an ambient flavor. I think the association is far from obvious or immediate but I think it makes sense. It's just a different kind of dream that you're having, basically.

[Deleted]

Apr 19, 2017 7:58:56 GMT -5 Tyrannus said:

Apr 19, 2017 4:38:49 GMT -5 @ancientrecollections said:

I feel like most of the 'noisy' elements in the DS is indirect and accidental. They're two polar opposite genres, both in terms of sound and aesthetics. DS is a very 'escapist' form of art inspired by fantasy, imaginative dream worlds, myth, history, etc. Noise and it's related genres (power electronics, industrial) are very 'down to earth' and typically deal with political and corporeal topics. That being said, I adore both genres.

I don't think noise specifically has to occupy the realm of the down to earth, per se. It can be dreamy in like a dissociative, jarring way. As was mentioned, HNW especially can take on an ambient flavor. I think the association is far from obvious or immediate but I think it makes sense. It's just a different kind of dream that you're having, basically.

I wasn't saying it has to, I was just saying that as an avid listener and collector of this style of music that is what I've noticed are recurring themes in the genre. Very rarely you'll get a or harsh noise artist who treads in dark ambient territory, but like you said once it crosses those genre barriers it becomes something else. Harsh noise is one of those genres that heavily reliant on imagery and aesthetics to kind of prop up the music and give it more substance, dungeon synth benefits from that as well so I have a hard time imaging how you could bring the two together cohesively in way that will not sacrifice the strong defining attributes of each genre. Sure, some one will try and over intellectualize DS or HN and say "there are no boundaries" or something along those lines, but you have to admit both genres have clear defining qualities to them that if they were absent it wouldn't be as potent. We're talking about micro-genres. Like sub-sub-sub genres, so they are very specific things. That's just my opinion. I'm all for experimentation and pushing the envelope, and like I said I am an avid listener of both so I am at least open to hearing it being done.

[Tyrannus]

It's not as though noise can't discuss realms of fantasy or anything. It seems like you're saying noise can't pertain to the same things as DS can, aesthetically. I'd say the two can work hand in hand

[Tyrannus]

I feel like HNW and noise in general have a high capacity to be recontextualized. If done properly you can bend it to fit all sorts of different aesthetics.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ZMEgZgnq4

[Deleted]

That's what I mean though by "reliant on imagery and aesthetics". If you heard that tape outside the context of the album cover, would you think of a castle or a dungeon? Probably not. You listen to Mortiis or Depressive Silence it's impossible not to imagine those things. That's the whole point of dungeon synth, to create that specific atmosphere. Noise is about texture and atmosphere as well but with a totally different approach. That said, I'm not that much if a straight harsh noise listener. I'm more a of power electronics and industrial person. I enjoy artists like The Rita, Dead Body Love, etc...but mostly because of the themes and aesthetics that accompany the sounds.

Also, one final and I think important point is what goes into creating the music. Noise is essentially made with a bunch of over-driven effects pedals, contact mics, feedback loops on mixers, mono-synths, etc. Not things that make you think of dungeons and fantasy landscapes when playing them. It's a very post-modern form of music. The instruments and sounds used to make dungeon synth are inherently nostalgic and "old" feeling. The melodies and song structures are in a way neo-classical. Everything about it fits like a glove with the aesthetics. 

I'm not saying noise can't talk about fantasy, I'm just saying it's generally not what I think of, or would try to convey in noise (I make power electronics and noise as well). You're right about noise being fluid and able to morph to fit whatever aesthetic you want, but that's because noise is so abstract. It's totally devoid of anything conventionally "musical". It literally can be anything you want.