Dungeon Synth Compilation

[crystallogic13]

Tyrannus, this dungeonsynth.proboards.com/search/results?captcha_id=captcha_search&what_at_least_one=einhorn&who_only_made_by=0&display_as=0&search=Search gives me NO results discussing what I said besides the actual order of the song in the compilation and not its genre... If there is even a FB discussion, please paste me the link. Thanx in advance..

[Tyrannus]

Mar 29, 2017 13:55:05 GMT -5 crystallogic13 said:

Tyrannus, this dungeonsynth.proboards.com/search/results?captcha_id=captcha_search&what_at_least_one=einhorn&who_only_made_by=0&display_as=0&search=Search gives me NO results discussing what I said besides the actual order of the song in the compilation and not its genre... If there is even a FB discussion, please paste me the link. Thanx in advance..

Check out the dungeon noise thread to get a really in depth discussion of the concept. I forget where but in one of the other threads we discussed the track ordering so I can try to find that later

[Tyrannus]

Oh also I think the compilation was intended to first and foremost showcase what we have going on at the forum and any attempt to be an introduction to the genre in general was somewhat secondary. Someone can correct me if that's inaccurate

[kaptaincarbon]

Yep we talked about dungeon noise before. Despite my fascination with it, I think that Einhorn track was short enough in the right place for it to be interesting. The compilation was revolved around a theme of introducing characters and "The Dark Herbalist" gave me visions of a Radagast character just more horrifying. I love the experimentation of noise, chip music, drone, and ritual ambient that is sometimes woven through the music. I think this comp was less of an introduction of the gnere and more of a showcase of what is current and being made and this is one of them. With that said, I think its going to be a little bit before "Now That's What I call Dungeon Noise!"

[Tyrannus]

But yeah you certainly wouldn't be the first to file that complaint, haha. I say check out ranseur and check out the dungeon noise thread and then maybe it'll seem less jarring. That's my only advice

[crystallogic13]

OK... I'm not happy with the answer but I'll drop it, I'm just a listener of the genre, not producing,publishing,helping etc so of course it is your efforts,forums and compilation.

p.s. So the relation to DS is its... name ? Ok ..

[kaptaincarbon]

Mar 29, 2017 14:22:51 GMT -5 crystallogic13 said:

OK... I'm not happy with the answer but I'll drop it, I'm just a listener of the genre, not producing,publishing,helping etc so of course it is your efforts,forums and compilation.

p.s. So the relation to DS is its... name ? Ok ..

I can try to sum it up. Dungeon synth sort of grew out of dark ambient / black metal and its early purveyors were really into low fidelity. Lamentation is a good example (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4eqfNd7qa0). From what I understand of dungeon noise it is about exploring the landscapes of dungeon synth which has its dark aspects just with noise. Noise is a tough sell on people but what I have seen and grew to appreciate is people's fascination with alien sounds and ones that cause friction. For a genre that seems to be dedicated to plumbing the depths of a thematic dungeon, I can certainly see noisy things laying at the bottom. I think that you could argue for noise as much as light ambient which is also included in the genre. 

[thekeeper]

Coming from an dungeon noise advocate and fan, I thought the first portion of the Einhorn track was not very dungeon-y, in my opinion. I imagined some kind of obscure pulpy dark sci-fi scene, like a broken spacecraft rotting in acid on a sunless planet. It was interesting and I liked it, but it didn't have the dungeon feel for me. Considering it's name, I could see the crypt imagery in comparison to the sound I suppose (maybe like a frantic weird creature scurrying about in swampy catacombs?). The other portion however, The Dark Herbalist, I thought it fit very well. I liked both parts, but I couldn't help but get non-dungeon imagery from the first portion. Still good, though!

[Tyrannus]

Mar 29, 2017 14:34:50 GMT -5 thekeeper said:

Coming from an dungeon noise advocate and fan, I thought the first portion of the Einhorn track was not very dungeon-y, in my opinion. I imagined some kind of obscure pulpy dark sci-fi scene, like a broken spacecraft rotting in acid on a sunless planet. It was interesting and I liked it, but it didn't have the dungeon feel for me. Considering it's name, I could see the crypt imagery in comparison to the sound I suppose (maybe like a frantic weird creature scurrying about in swampy catacombs?). The other portion however, The Dark Herbalist, I thought it fit very well. I liked both parts, but I couldn't help but get non-dungeon imagery from the first portion. Still good, though!

Ah yeah I can understand that complaint! Yeah I agree I don't always nail the execution 100%, as far as conjuring a dungeonesque sound goes. But I'm working on honing that a bit more, slowly improving over time. Or getting worse potentially, who knows

[crystallogic13]

I still fail to see what noise has to do with Depressive Silence, Mortiis, or even earlier before BM , with Basil Poledouris or even later with for example.. And sorry mate , ambient is very related to DS.. As Black Metal as you and I already said.. But noise is a different kind of monster.. I understand that you enjoy it, but it is VERY FAR from DS if you are not into it.. Anyway.. As I said it comes down to that this is your stuff, you do it your way.. But please don't say to me NOISE which is a separete genre has anything to do with DS.. AND NO , Black Metal lofi 1st wave Norwegian doesnt sound AT ALL like noise.. I dont know why I even has to write it.. And last and sorry to argue but maybe we nead some heat here to discuss more it is also unrelated if trendy BM encompasses (shit for me) stuff like noise or other like shoegaze..

I'm summing it up :
Ambient ==> CLOSE RELATIVE ==> mixes well with compilation, either way MANY MANY DS artists are playing drone / ambient and labelling it DS with some appropriate song titles like the one we are discussing for creating some related atmoshpere..
Black Metal ===> CLOSE RELATIVE ==> Any intro/outro etc etc song mixes well, though a song with normal black vocals while I personally 'd have no problem, I WOULD BE OUT OF CONTEXT really.. I still wanna somehow forget listening to mr Lovidicus murdering Summoning's Farewell

Noise==> ==> GAVE ME endless "what the fuck" ?

That's all.. cant express it any differently.. You can support your decision to include it all day, as I can also support that it is like an elephant in a taxi.

[thekeeper]

Mar 29, 2017 14:39:56 GMT -5 Tyrannus said:

Mar 29, 2017 14:34:50 GMT -5 thekeeper said:

Coming from an dungeon noise advocate and fan, I thought the first portion of the Einhorn track was not very dungeon-y, in my opinion. I imagined some kind of obscure pulpy dark sci-fi scene, like a broken spacecraft rotting in acid on a sunless planet. It was interesting and I liked it, but it didn't have the dungeon feel for me. Considering it's name, I could see the crypt imagery in comparison to the sound I suppose (maybe like a frantic weird creature scurrying about in swampy catacombs?). The other portion however, The Dark Herbalist, I thought it fit very well. I liked both parts, but I couldn't help but get non-dungeon imagery from the first portion. Still good, though!

Ah yeah I can understand that complaint! Yeah I agree I don't always nail the execution 100%, as far as conjuring a dungeonesque sound goes. But I'm working on honing that a bit more, slowly improving over time. Or getting worse potentially, who knows

Ah, no complaint at all. It caught me off guard a little since I wasn't expecting that kind of imagery, but it's a good track. Still canonical DS in my opinion. I don't think all DS, despite the name, is entirely dungeon-dwelling anyway.

[Tyrannus]

Mar 29, 2017 14:22:51 GMT -5 crystallogic13 said:

OK... I'm not happy with the answer but I'll drop it, I'm just a listener of the genre, not producing,publishing,helping etc so of course it is your efforts,forums and compilation.

p.s. So the relation to DS is its... name ? Ok ..

Yeah going off of what Kaptain said, much how raw black metal employs heavy distortion but can still convey a kind of primordial feeling, so dungeon noise attempts to add some grit and grime to the synths to further convey an unpleasant and dark atmosphere.  It sort of confuses me that its like you're not hearing that there are synths present, and that's the obvious connection to DS.  The noise element is especially reduced on this track compared to other stuff I've done, which I also find interesting since you're like cripplingly distracted by it even at a low level.  But yeah anyway I try to employ a lot of the same synth tones of course and to create that same kind of atmosphere that DS does.  I'm personally really inspired by a lot of black ambient and stuff too.  Stuff like Darkness Enshroud and Black Wailing incorporates a lot of the harshness of black metal (often in the form of the vocals) and couples that with synths to create a really eerie feel.  It's that same sort of logic

[thekeeper]

Mar 29, 2017 14:43:10 GMT -5 crystallogic13 said:

I still fail to see what noise has to do with Depressive Silence, Mortiis, or even earlier before BM , with Basil Poledouris or even later with for example.. And sorry mate , ambient is very related to DS.. As Black Metal as you and I already said.. But noise is a different kind of monster.. I understand that you enjoy it, but it is VERY FAR from DS if you are not into it.. Anyway.. As I said it comes down to that this is your stuff, you do it your way.. But please don't say to me NOISE which is a separete genre has anything to do with DS.. AND NO , Black Metal lofi 1st wave Norwegian doesnt sound AT ALL like noise.. I dont know why I even has to write it.. And last and sorry to argue but maybe we nead some heat here to discuss more it is also unrelated if trendy BM encompasses (shit for me) stuff like noise or other like shoegaze..

I'm summing it up :
Ambient ==> CLOSE RELATIVE ==> mixes well with compilation, either way MANY MANY DS artists are playing drone / ambient and labelling it DS with some appropriate song titles like the one we are discussing for creating some related atmoshpere..
Black Metal ===> CLOSE RELATIVE ==> Any intro/outro etc etc song mixes well, though a song with normal black vocals while I personally 'd have no problem, I WOULD BE OUT OF CONTEXT really.. I still wanna somehow forget listening to mr Lovidicus murdering Summoning's Farewell

Noise==> ==> GAVE ME endless "what the fuck" ?

That's all.. cant express it any differently.. You can support your decision to include it all day, as I can also support that it is like an elephant in a taxi.

I think one way, of multiple, that noise can be related to DS is via influence from the recording methods/quality/feedback of 90s demos. One can take the obscure dreamy and/or dark atmosphere with that subtle background hiss and flip the focus of two, for example, bringing the noise much more to the forefront, playing with it, and having the synth accompany the noise to create a really strange atmosphere. Maybe go at it like the noise is just blown out tape hiss. Noise can add a whole new layer of feelings of fear, obscurity, or darkness (and even melancholy and dare I say comfiness at times). 'Noise' alone isn't DS, but DS can certainly have noise elements in it and vice versa. The merging of the two, noise and DS, creates what we've kind of coined as Dungeon Noise as a push in the extreme direction.

[Tyrannus]

Mar 29, 2017 14:43:10 GMT -5 crystallogic13 said:

I still fail to see what noise has to do with Depressive Silence, Mortiis, or even earlier before BM , with Basil Poledouris or even later with for example.. And sorry mate , ambient is very related to DS.. As Black Metal as you and I already said.. But noise is a different kind of monster.. I understand that you enjoy it, but it is VERY FAR from DS if you are not into it.. Anyway.. As I said it comes down to that this is your stuff, you do it your way.. But please don't say to me NOISE which is a separete genre has anything to do with DS.. AND NO , Black Metal lofi 1st wave Norwegian doesnt sound AT ALL like noise.. I dont know why I even has to write it.. And last and sorry to argue but maybe we nead some heat here to discuss more it is also unrelated if trendy BM encompasses (shit for me) stuff like noise or other like shoegaze..

I'm summing it up :
Ambient ==> CLOSE RELATIVE ==> mixes well with compilation, either way MANY MANY DS artists are playing drone / ambient and labelling it DS with some appropriate song titles like the one we are discussing for creating some related atmoshpere..
Black Metal ===> CLOSE RELATIVE ==> Any intro/outro etc etc song mixes well, though a song with normal black vocals while I personally 'd have no problem, I WOULD BE OUT OF CONTEXT really.. I still wanna somehow forget listening to mr Lovidicus murdering Summoning's Farewell

Noise==> ==> GAVE ME endless "what the fuck" ?

That's all.. cant express it any differently.. You can support your decision to include it all day, as I can also support that it is like an elephant in a taxi.

There's a high level of overlap between raw bm and noise, both in terms of sound and spirit.  Guitar distortion is noise, and a lot of black metal, at least the bm I enjoy, is very heavily distorted.  Black metal is lo-fi to make it harsher and noisier, from my perspective.  I mean clearly you don't see it that way, which is fine.  Also I don't think anyone denies that ambient is related to DS.  

[Witherer]

Mar 29, 2017 14:34:50 GMT -5 thekeeper said:

I liked both parts, but I couldn't help but get non-dungeon imagery from the first portion. Still good, though!

My feelings as well and I think that'll be the struggle of the genre. My personal approach is to start with DS grate it some rather than start with noise and get a medieval/fantasy feel out of it. I'm eagerly anticipating harsher/noisier/dungeonier sounds in the future though.

As far as the compilation, I think there were some notes about using it as an opportunity to experiment and that was part of the appeal for me. I'd love a full album that was a spider web centered on pure DS with deviations spreading everywhere. Perhaps if there was more intense variations on this comp then the noise track wouldn't have cut as deeply.