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Post by andrewwerdna on Apr 17, 2018 20:27:08 GMT -5
An interesting angle to this thread - that new Arno Brecker project. Putting aside all the obvious Nazi connection and fascist language, the attempt to distinguish "solar art" from "dungeon degeneracy" strikes me as the same trend we've discussed earlier, taken to an extreme. I notice the artist still put their music in the dungeon synth tag on bandcamp... I stumbled onto that last night. For something that is attempting to "promote beauty over ugliness," it sounds pretty damn ugly to me, like poorly produced and just boring musically, like something most of us could crank out in an afternoon. Hopefully the controversial politics doesn't give the mediocre music more attention than it deserves.
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Sargeburt
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Post by Sargeburt on Apr 18, 2018 6:19:34 GMT -5
An interesting angle to this thread - that new Arno Brecker project. Putting aside all the obvious Nazi connection and fascist language, the attempt to distinguish "solar art" from "dungeon degeneracy" strikes me as the same trend we've discussed earlier, taken to an extreme. I notice the artist still put their music in the dungeon synth tag on bandcamp... I stumbled onto that last night. For something that is attempting to "promote beauty over ugliness," it sounds pretty damn ugly to me, like poorly produced and just boring musically, like something most of us could crank out in an afternoon. Hopefully the controversial politics doesn't give the mediocre music more attention than it deserves. Just listen to this... another project who talks and try to be more as it is.
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Post by detoxscission on Apr 18, 2018 10:15:21 GMT -5
I kind of think the 'distancing' thing happens with every genre, to some degree. People don't like being pigeonholed, even if it is the style they're doing. Saw it a lot with Black Metal in the 90's and, despite the lack of kvlt status, Nu Metal when that was more prominent. While I understand why someone would want to distance themselves from a stated genre, there's also a lot to work with. I've heard certain musicians say they don't like tag A because it regularly makes them be associated with a certain artist that they don't particularly wish to, yet they're in the same genre. I guess that's one reason, but once groups start heavily doing that and making up new genres that don't need to be made, it makes it a lot harder to find the music nowadays when you, the fan, are looking for a specific tag.
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Post by Witherer on Apr 18, 2018 12:13:24 GMT -5
An interesting angle to this thread - that new Arno Brecker project. Putting aside all the obvious Nazi connection and fascist language, the attempt to distinguish "solar art" from "dungeon degeneracy" strikes me as the same trend we've discussed earlier, taken to an extreme. I notice the artist still put their music in the dungeon synth tag on bandcamp... I stumbled onto that last night. For something that is attempting to "promote beauty over ugliness," it sounds pretty damn ugly to me, like poorly produced and just boring musically, like something most of us could crank out in an afternoon. Hopefully the controversial politics doesn't give the mediocre music more attention than it deserves. This sound may almost pass as charming if framed as a whimsical bedroom D&D project but by fully embracing these aesthetics and ideology with unarguable imagery and extreme manifestos it undercuts that crutch and exposes how hollow it is. This appears to go so far into fungeon synth that it is trying to wrap itself all the way around the spectrum to achieve some True DS status by appropriating a style used used as a shortcut to elitism and exclusion in other genres. It's a bizarre choice for an artist to dress up a project in this theme and slip it into a DS community that eats up afternoon projects with shortrun tapes while renouncing 'dungeon degeneracy'.
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Post by dungeonsnake on Apr 18, 2018 22:18:18 GMT -5
Personally, I'm a big fan of dungeon degeneracy
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Post by thekeeper on Apr 18, 2018 22:40:12 GMT -5
Personally, I'm a big fan of dungeon degeneracy The Dungeon Synth Forum: Home for Degenerate Dungeon Goobers
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Post by hewhoburieslight on Apr 29, 2018 2:06:48 GMT -5
An interesting angle to this thread - that new Arno Brecker project. Putting aside all the obvious Nazi connection and fascist language, the attempt to distinguish "solar art" from "dungeon degeneracy" strikes me as the same trend we've discussed earlier, taken to an extreme. I notice the artist still put their music in the dungeon synth tag on bandcamp... Checking out this Arno Brecker now, and it looks to me like some kid who's just a bit enamored with fascism and all of its glittery imagery. I don't think I'm willing to rule out satire with this project just yet.
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Post by Niair de Nasqda on May 4, 2018 14:39:22 GMT -5
An interesting angle to this thread - that new Arno Brecker project. Putting aside all the obvious Nazi connection and fascist language, the attempt to distinguish "solar art" from "dungeon degeneracy" strikes me as the same trend we've discussed earlier, taken to an extreme. I notice the artist still put their music in the dungeon synth tag on bandcamp... I just checked it out of curiosity, and well, I didn't expect it to be that bad. Not because of the music, which I haven't bothered to listen in its entirety but seems average at best, but because of things like this:
Is the guy implying that creating or enjoying fantasy is related to being weak, fearful and cowardly? Seems so. And as someone who has the word "Solar" as part of the artistic name, this annoys me beyond belief. Related to this, and referring to the mentioned Old Tower statement, he seems to be kind of scorning fantasy as well. I don't understand it. Isn't fantasy present on the very foundations of the genre?
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Tyrannus
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Semantics
May 4, 2018 18:22:06 GMT -5
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Post by Tyrannus on May 4, 2018 18:22:06 GMT -5
Personally, I'm a big fan of dungeon degeneracy The Dungeon Synth Forum: Home for Degenerate Dungeon Goobers And proud of it!
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Semantics
May 5, 2018 3:35:26 GMT -5
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Post by secludedalchemist on May 5, 2018 3:35:26 GMT -5
The Dungeon Synth Forum: Home for Degenerate Dungeon Goobers And proud of it! There needs to be a shirt of this.
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Post by thewoodwose on May 20, 2018 23:42:44 GMT -5
An interesting angle to this thread - that new Arno Brecker project. Putting aside all the obvious Nazi connection and fascist language, the attempt to distinguish "solar art" from "dungeon degeneracy" strikes me as the same trend we've discussed earlier, taken to an extreme. I notice the artist still put their music in the dungeon synth tag on bandcamp... Looking at the Arno Brecker project. The music is very decent, but the aesthetic kills me. I saw it when browsing for some Dungeon Synth to put on my radio show and the art seemed off to me so I skipped over it. Kinda sad to see that this is trying so hard to distance itself from the scene in a way.
I suppose this is an instance of what is in a way NSDS. Although I guess they don't want to be associated with "dungeon degeneracy".
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Semantics
May 21, 2018 0:40:24 GMT -5
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Post by andrewwerdna on May 21, 2018 0:40:24 GMT -5
I don't think I'm willing to rule out satire with this project just yet. I'm starting to think this is what's going on with that, yeah, some sort of trolling. 4chan has taken an interest in the genre after all...
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Tyrannus
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Semantics
May 21, 2018 8:38:59 GMT -5
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Post by Tyrannus on May 21, 2018 8:38:59 GMT -5
I don't think I'm willing to rule out satire with this project just yet. I'm starting to think this is what's going on with that, yeah, some sort of trolling. 4chan has taken an interest in the genre after all... It’s my belief that anyone who sincerely identifies as a Nazi is mentally ill. I can listen to NSBM and stuff but I generally view that as being more of an aesthetic choice than a product of legitimate bigotry. I’m sure some portion of folks out there honestly believe in that kind of bullshit, so maybe this is all just wishful thinking on my part, but I like to think as a society at large we can at least recognize the falsehood of that belief system. I’ve talked to a lot of folks about this sort of thing and many think even the imagery should all just be put to rest, and remain as dead as the ideology itself. I’m still not 100% sure whether or not that’s the answer, but considering there are still folks out there who really do use this sort of imagery in conjunction with very real acts of violence and hatred, maybe it is something that should be avoided entirely. It’s a pretty muddy issue ultimately. Especially in the light of all these school shootings and other concerning activity going on in America and across the world, one could argue that even if the artist isn’t a sincere bigot that maybe the work they make could inspire others to do these hateful, violent things. I just know it’s not necessarily that black and white, I mean I’m a fairly progressive guy really but I still find a lot of the imagery interesting in a way, in the same way one might find art about war or gang violence interesting. I’m sure other folks feel similarly. Most of us listen to black metal and we all know that can be a tricky world to navigate at times, with it being unclear what various artists believe. I guess it comes down to if you perceive this sort of music as being actual propaganda or not. I know for me I try not to fixate on the politics of artists, because I know that I myself am not sympathetic to fascism and I know that if I listen to Absurd or Eisenwinter or Blutkrieg that still doesn’t make me sympathetic to that sort of thing. But I know other people feel differently and I try to be respectful of different viewpoints on the subject. I recognize as a white male that I haven’t experienced the world in the same way that others have and I know that shapes the things that I am and am not willing to tolerate. Perhaps it’s a product of my privilege, this fact that I can let NSBM and stuff like that slide at times. I just know that I don’t believe in that stuff and I don’t condone bigotry or intolerance. I think we all need to stand up for what we believe in, and if you feel that art like this is part of the problem then I definitely encourage you to speak out against it.
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Post by thewoodwose on May 21, 2018 22:47:06 GMT -5
I'm starting to think this is what's going on with that, yeah, some sort of trolling. 4chan has taken an interest in the genre after all... It’s my belief that anyone who sincerely identifies as a Nazi is mentally ill. I can listen to NSBM and stuff but I generally view that as being more of an aesthetic choice than a product of legitimate bigotry. I’m sure some portion of folks out there honestly believe in that kind of bullshit, so maybe this is all just wishful thinking on my part, but I like to think as a society at large we can at least recognize the falsehood of that belief system. I’ve talked to a lot of folks about this sort of thing and many think even the imagery should all just be put to rest, and remain as dead as the ideology itself. I’m still not 100% sure whether or not that’s the answer, but considering there are still folks out there who really do use this sort of imagery in conjunction with very real acts of violence and hatred, maybe it is something that should be avoided entirely. It’s a pretty muddy issue ultimately. Especially in the light of all these school shootings and other concerning activity going on in America and across the world, one could argue that even if the artist isn’t a sincere bigot that maybe the work they make could inspire others to do these hateful, violent things. I just know it’s not necessarily that black and white, I mean I’m a fairly progressive guy really but I still find a lot of the imagery interesting in a way, in the same way one might find art about war or gang violence interesting. I’m sure other folks feel similarly. Most of us listen to black metal and we all know that can be a tricky world to navigate at times, with it being unclear what various artists believe. I guess it comes down to if you perceive this sort of music as being actual propaganda or not. I know for me I try not to fixate on the politics of artists, because I know that I myself am not sympathetic to fascism and I know that if I listen to Absurd or Eisenwinter or Blutkrieg that still doesn’t make me sympathetic to that sort of thing. But I know other people feel differently and I try to be respectful of different viewpoints on the subject. I recognize as a white male that I haven’t experienced the world in the same way that others have and I know that shapes the things that I am and am not willing to tolerate. Perhaps it’s a product of my privilege, this fact that I can let NSBM and stuff like that slide at times. I just know that I don’t believe in that stuff and I don’t condone bigotry or intolerance. I think we all need to stand up for what we believe in, and if you feel that art like this is part of the problem then I definitely encourage you to speak out against it. Well said.
I can have a hard time listening to NSBM bands because of how I feel about the beliefs. I think if making NS music is viewed as a problem I think we should stand against it as a community.
I think BM is really beyond saving at this point because people will jump to defend NS bands, however if we don't think DS has a place for NS projects then we should stand against it as a community.
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Semantics
May 21, 2018 23:01:46 GMT -5
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Post by andrewwerdna on May 21, 2018 23:01:46 GMT -5
I'm able to detach myself from ideological disagreements in art as well, as I think is necesary to appreciate artists like Burzum. If an ideology is something an artist feels in their bones, and is inextricably entwined with with a similar passion for a particular style of music, then it is what it is and one is left only to take it for what it's worth. What I'm really opposed to however is a cynical attempt to infiltrate a trend for the purpose of ideological manipulation, without any real dedication to the style itself apart from its usefulness in reaching a particular audience. That's what this initially struck me as (however now I'm starting to think it was just intended to elicit any sort of reaction, the prominent display of penis on the cover seems somewhat facetious). This old thread was a good discussion on this topic: dungeonsynth.proboards.com/thread/77/dungeon-synth-90s-black-metal
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